toy buildup/pics/question

[Climb or Slide]

Hey guys, I have chevies in the rear, and 93 toy rears/85 toy rears up front with a drop hanger. The truck is an 81. I have a question about the steering box placement for my hysteer. Take a look.

front suspension with drop hanger, below frame mounted 4" shakles, u-bolt flip, ect.http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid134/pbdba92df3e319d7d5948587436fbad39/f77c7d4b.jpg

Here is the boxhttp://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid134/pb424a651dffbcd69164a728ce5345a4a/f77c30c7.jpg

Here is the rear set up, 11 inch shakles, johnny joints, ect. http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid134/pe03e9b9b9fbe7fa093fdda1dec6af1e5/f77c7d36.jpg

I will try to get a better pic of that PS box, i need to re-upload a modified one, but im on 56k, it took me an hour to upload theese, reboot a bunch, and post it. thx for your input guys!

Joey

[roktoy84]

is there any particular reason for building the shackles below the frame?

[Climb or Slide]

So I won't need banana shakles, or really long shakles. Anyway, I kinda didn't post a question up there. I was going to ask if the box looks far enough forward. but I am about to start welding my frame braces on , and they are pre-drilled, so kinda too late now. thx

Joey

[roktoy84]

Usually, most mount them as far foward as they can. But, as long as the tie rod and draglink are parallel I wouldn't think it would be a problem. Is your front axle moved foward any?

[Zrock]

My god please tell me you are not going to drive that on the street or at all for that matter with those front shackles and those front drop hangers.... thats just plain unsafe... their is way to much side to side force and front to back force to run a long front drop hanger like that... why do you think 99.9% of people use square tubing from one side to the other and reinforced hangers on the front... and those shackles are going to snap off where the extra hole is drilled... Do it right man its not worth risking your life or someone elses when one of those pcs breaks...

[Kyron]

Thats more like drop hanger "brackets" ........ its going to need alot more bracing ......... looks "bootie fab" :no no:

And make new shackles without the extra hole otherwise its going to bend :(

Move the box as far forward as it can go........ even trim some of the body mount.......


your going to get longer brake lines too ......... right?

[Climb or Slide]

Rocktoy, yes 3 inches forward. I trimmed the bunber mount, the inner fender, and cut 3" of seam weld off near the body mount. the pump is now touching the body mount. there are pics below of how it turned out.

Zrock, Many of theese issues have been brought to my attention already, but yes, the shakles are going in the trash, and no, the front hangers are not done.

Kyron- those brake lines have 7 inch extensions in them already... making them 26 inches long. All pros SS lines are only 28. Maybe the pic is decieving.

I am going to make new shakles that are 3 in eye-to-eye out of 2x.5 stock, with only one leaf eye hole. I will add a leaf or two to that pack to regain the lost lift from the shakle length. (this will improve my pinion angle/caster also).

I am also going to reinforce the front hangers with a bar/tube running between them. And my bumper that isn't in any of theese pics has two 9/16 bolts that attach to the hangers, which increase the strength as well. The bumper isn't thin like the stock one, its 3/8".

here are hysteer pics:

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid134/pf2925692616c1f18fbe93ede1adaccb6/f7783284.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid134/p483ab1190a80116d45207cdebc902b7f/f7783277.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid134/pddbb0995aa7e5211ffff40cdd9555fb8/f7783270.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid134/p3eea5b1c84f0d6fbad2be469b74f6f37/f7783262.jpg

[Rockcrawlintoy]

to be frank them front hangers are pretty weak and i wouldnt trust them. i see no propblem with shackles under the frame as thats what i am running. i did use 3/8th to make the shackles and i used a jeep cj shackle hanger. looks like the front hanger needs a lot work bracing before it is road worthy let alone trail worthy.

Drew

[KToy]

not to rag on ya rig man but these guys are right its not the best idea to make a drop hanger on one side alone.

u need to make a drop hanger for the front out of square tubing at lease 1/4 inch think but i would recommend 3/8 cuz thats what i used and it turned out great.

aslo nothing wrong with the shackle below the frame cuz some of have to do that with these full width axles like myself. i wouldnt go above a 6 inch shackle up front and u can get straight steel 2 inch wide for like 10 bux at any metal store and its 3/8 thick and then just cut the length u need and drill holes threw the plates where u need them.

the worst thing u could do is break $&*% on the trail and have to redo ur whole system. id redo ur front hanger and the shackles if it were me. doing things 2 or 3 times and then finaly getting it right is timely and $$$ so take these ppls advice and redo ur stuff. also with ur axle moved that forward with those leafs
(same leafs i have 91 rears with 85 rears underneath) ull need to get ur knuckles cut and turned or ur gonna break driveshafts like no other

GOOD LUCK!!!
donovan

[KToy]

ohh ya and also ur leafs are looking way weak in the front so u should add a few more leaf packs to them or they will bow and break. also those leaf springs sleeves u got holding the leafs together are not going to work. go to a spring shop and pick u up some u shaped straps that u can drill a hole in and put a bolt threw.

if u know the length they got holes in them already. about 2 3/4 wide and about 2 1/2 inches tall the straps would come with the holes and u just buy the 4 bolts and then ur leafs wont slap and wont rap as easy. ur gonna flex the same if u do it or not same with adding the leaf packs. if u were in utah id come over and help ya out.

also pm me if u want to see some pics of my rig build up cuz i got the chev axle up front and such and maybe it would give ya a better idea of what ur after

[robrocketanski]

the set up is very similar to mine except i gave in and bought marlins new front hanger so i could have a decent looking hanger w/ a ton of drop. i can't make it look too good and still hang down that far. i have a 3" drop hanger and marlins hanger is going to go below it.

i think if those hangers are reinforced you'll be fine. as long as they are tied in to the ends of them. but i see you have two holes drilled in the inside of the front hanger, is that to bolt to the bumper? that would help alot. my shackles are to the bottom of the frame too. no problem there except for caster requiring the huge front drop.

[Climb or Slide]

robrocket- That is my plan now. I am going to gusset the front mounts with square stock going to the frame. it will make two triangles with respect to the frame and the drop mounts. I already have new shakles made for the front, 2 inches wide, only 2 holes, not three. And they are 3 inches eye to eye, so i will have less caster issues, and the pinion angle will be better. I am going to use 1.5x1.5x0.250 to make the gussets.

Thanks for all the help guys. Atilla you have a PM

[KToy]

besides gussets maybe a solid peice of tube myight be a better idea just a suggestion.. if ifffff u can do gussets and a support bar of like 1 inch stock and make it a solid piece of stock round bar is what they call it i think..

just an idea to help u out.

[Climb or Slide]

I have a lot of 1.5" tubing in 3/16" wall at my house. I thinking of using that to make the gussets, and maybe making them into two triangles and a crossbar. the stock frame would make up one base, the two hangers would be the other, and the hypotenuse would be the two gussets. like this l/\l

BTW, I would have made a typical drop hanger, but then I would need a new bumper. And I would have modified the bumper to accept the usual drop hanger, but I already had my driveshaft modified for the 4" I moved my axle forward. If I did the usual swuare stock drop, I would mess up my center of travel on my driveshaft. So I do understand why this seems a little crazy to some of you. But it will be fine when I get back from vacation (taking a week to see family in cali)

[Climb or Slide]

Got the front mounts gusseted with 1.25" round stock. It is 3/16" wall, and the front hanger is quite rigid now. Here is a pic of it.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid136/p1fb80801ae679a67f8d82d2bf33faf14/f75d5b81.jpg

[KToy]

looks pretty good man i like the look of those tubes running across the frame.

i think that will be plenty strong as well nice work if u ask me

[Kyron]

But thats going to the stock "swiss cheese" bar......... thats the point of regular drop hangers, they make the whole part stronger.

The stock swiss chesse crossmember isnt very thick at all, what mabey 1/8?

[sparky]

not to rag on ya man.

but i would really consider listening to what the others have said on your crossmember. cot it off and start over or you'll be having problems. how are you planning on getting your springs off?

the swiss cheese crossmemeber needs to be either cut out and replaced or put a piece welded under it.

heres how i built mine. not the prettiest but it won't break! its been tested!

[sparky]

i also platted the swiss cheese stuff with 3/8" steel.

i used 1/4" on everything else!

[Zrock]

fix it right man.... if it was safe that way everyone would be doing it but they are not... they are running tubing under the toy xmember and adding mounts to that.... now thats gota tell ya something...

[Climb or Slide]

I must say before I couldn't picture it supporting all the forces acconpanied with axle articulation... but Even before the tubing I tested out the flex, and nothing creaked, bent, cracked, or anything like that. I realize this is my life I am putting into my own hands with my suspension set up, but I believe this is more than strong enough for what I will be doing. I am not going to drop the vehicle onto my hanger. I will be just hitting the trails and some rocks like a DD should. (i do have a back up car though)

Here is some of my reasoning... strongest geometric shape is a triangle. I like the idea of a pair of triangles better then trying to make a 3.5" drop hanger (eye to eye) out of square tube. What would that be, like 3x5 box? 2x5 box? where the H*** am I going to get that? sure, any metal shop. any metal shop can get me 20 foot lengths. I know 3x2x0.250 is about $6 a foot. I would assume 2x5x3/8" is like $10 a foot. thats $200 for just metal? And If you say, "just weld two 2.5x2.5x0.250 pieces of squarestock on top of each other". That sounds like it would break. Picture the force on the front mount of a truck driving straight over a curb with 30" tires. wouldnt that make a force pulling straight back on the mount? I would need some huge gussets to go with it. Mine angles forward at 30º at the square stock, and at 17º at the roundstock. Final rant: It seems really silly to weld metal 3x as thick as the stock hanger with an arc welder. And no, I don't have access to a 220 wire feed. just a 220 arc.

I am not trying to be a jerk, and I'm not trying to flame. I will cut it off the day it breaks. Just like every other thing on the truck. But by all means, keep the opinions and ideas coming. I appreciate all the input.

Attilia- too bad you can't see it in person. It looks better in real life.

EDIT: spelling

[Kyron]

You can get the spring bolt out though ........... right?

[Kyron]

Originally posted by Climb or Slide
I am not going to drop the vehicle onto my hanger. I will be just hitting the trails and some rocks like a DD should. (i do have a back up car though)


Whats the fun in that :D

[Climb or Slide]

Kyron- Yes, the bolt can come out. And that sentince didn't mean I wasn't gonna have fun, just that I'm not going to trailer it down to rubicon or MOAB. :Thumbsup:

I got my driveshafts today! they look awesome. Cost me $300. I got a longer front spline, CTM style u-joints, and had different lengths of tubing put in each shaft. I think it was a pretty good price. My rear is 50" eye to eye, and the front is 20.25" I believe. Obviosly no dual cases for a long time. I'll get pics too.

[Climb or Slide]

Pic of dshafts and my painted hysteer arms. (My freind took his rig to the beach and they rusted)

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid136/pdf2941cc12de6b8f2cadc1e18e6ca2cd/f7589741.jpg

[KToy]

looking good man i think ull be fine with the setup u got going.

also i bet it does look good in person compated to my bulky drop hanget mine is hideously ugly and huge and way to think for anything i would of really needed

tube is strong ull be fine man

[Climb or Slide]

I was busy today. I Gusseted my ford shock mounts and wended them in. I also Got some metal and made a mount for my front trac bar. This mount is going to have a shackle about 3" long, and will be built out of 1.25x.188 tubing with 3/4" heim joints. I took a few pics, post your comments!


http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid136/p9a5c7f3dbe408ed7bb6d683d3f49d0e4/f74fcfda.jpg
Here is my transmission/x case cross member before any work was done.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid136/pf6e9659fa31f69a27893c40ce0943b4e/f74fcfd0.jpg
Here is what my design looked like before cutting. It is 1/8” steel plate (same thickness as x-member).
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid136/p3fbb6840fb8ce5fbb508a6f32cade1b9/f74fcfb4.jpg
Here is the plate after all the cutting.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid136/pb0532b8498759166ca590b53d42846bb/f74fcfc9.jpg
In the vice and partially welded.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid136/pfd2529088084d90696d4280e96701245/f74fcfd2.jpg
All welds are finished on the mount… Can you tell WTF it is now?
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid136/peaf152d7aee72d0f67223f341e5c8cfa/f74fcfc2.jpg
Now it is Drilled, welded to the x-member, and waiting for paint.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid136/p1490c25a4a351bf8ee596a93780c6343/f74fcfbe.jpg
Close up.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid136/p4ad2b15d133137d5aa00774cd37eac9b/f74fcfb0.jpg
Painted and ready to go back onto the truck.

[KToy]

i do not use a trackbar and im curious y ur building one? but its up to u my friend had one and he took it off cuz it didnt do nothing but i know some ppl swear by them but with these chevies being so flat i have not yet a problem so whatever man just my .02

if u hop then do it but i do not hop all that bad with the low gears and if i do hop its not too bad but some ppl hate hopping and i like it if i need it good luck and ur trackbar mount looks sweet if u ask mebut is it the way of the drivelin???? if u mount it to the tranny support then ull have a slanted driveling above the trackbar but im sure i am wrong about this cuz i usualy am especialy in a pic

[Climb or Slide]

The driveline is on the other side. It is on the side of the stock traction bar. I am making one because my front springs bend to an S when they flex, and my rear springs will end up that way on a DD. Every time you accelerate with chev 63s your diff points down for a sec, than goes back to normal. This isn't a huge deal if you drive mainly off-road, but in stop and go it can eventually bend your springs to an S. The wheel hop doesn't worry me at all. If it did I would just do A/W leaves. they are WAY easier and cheaper.

[KToy]

my mistake i thought that was a rear track bar. um i have a question. what springs do u have up front?

my fronts dont have a problem in traffic and i run stock 91's and then stock85's with the eyes cut off underneath.

if u added some leafs they would not s shape on u and the rear moved like that when u have lots of flex if u ask me but ur pinion should be 3 degrees higher then ur drivelin so that when u give it gas it goes to level witht eh driveline and then back up if u want to be exact

but sounds like u got it under control

[Climb or Slide]

I have a 93 rear 2wd main leaf, and then 4 leafs from a 4wd 85 4runner rear.

Joe

[KToy]

maybe add some stock toy leafs under there to stiffen it up on the road or something but a trackbar will work too i guess

[Climb or Slide]

Yup. I would rather have it softer and bared that stiff with no bar.

I am still making progress, but i have like 7 days of work in a row, so I have made the mount for the front bar, and both mounts for the rear bar (axle and rear crossmember). The rear mounts have yet to be welded on though.

Pics to come monday...

Joey

[Climb or Slide]

I was kinda lost on my rear shock situation, so I called up all-pro and discussed bilstein travel and tube length, and cambered in shock mounts, ect. The virdict ended up being limited compression on 12" travel, or 10" travel with a possibility of limited droop. I decided to make a new upper shock mount. I ordered 4 14" travel 5125s which have a 17.9" shock body. My static shock length went from 19 to 27 inches... And I will not be limited by shocks. period. check out the pics, post comments!


Here is my through-the-bed shock mount. It is made out of 1.250x.125 steel tubing, and .125 plate.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid137/p85e1178d63666d54f095de9199981e14/f7358d63.jpg

These are two holes I cut in the bed for the shock mount… Good ole sawzall.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid137/p3a3528cde9a96be61f300010affb0223/f7358d60.jpg

Here it is installed, still requiring some painting… It is welded about 4 inches behind the stock crossbar, barely in front of my axle (to prevent brake line interference). It is angled forward at the same angle my shocks will be angled (around 5º). The mounts at the axle will be made from 3/16” plate.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid137/p04dba77158e9d416b98357bc1f904384/f7358d53.jpg

[KToy]

looks good man do u know the measurements of those shocks extended and collapsed???


u could of gone with my shocks for 150$ a piece. how much did those shocks run u ????


mine are 149.99 each and u know how much mine travel. my fronts are 50 inch extended and 30 inches collapsed. and on level ground they sit at about 37 inches so i have 7 inches up and 13 down. but i am soon changing it to 40 inches on level so i get 10 up and 10 down as soon as my axle is done.

the tube work looks fine and the shocks are gonna look sweet once u get them in the bed man but if this is just a DAILY DRIVER like u said i think ur spending way to much money for some things.


should of gotten 14 all around of the cheaper bilsteins 5100 and then put them through the bed or under the bed but thos shocks u bought are sweeeeet


MORE PICS MAN

[GJC]

I am sorry but you scare Me, that work needs help.
Now this is not Me but my friend needs to say something :Freak:

I like the way you fabed up your trac-bar mount, but I strongly disagree with your method of thinking. O.k., so nothing creaked cracked, or broke while you flexed it for the first time. I don't think that you will have the same results six months from now. Your front mounts are way too tall, even for being braced. You method of looking at how physical forces get applied is a little wacked (no offense). Say you take your rig out on the trail, and rip on it. Maybe it does fine. Maybe it starts a serious crack. Maybe you don't notice. Maybe it fails as you are going home. What do you do then? No hard feelings, but I wouldn't run a boner of a front mount like that, even if it is braced. Think about your forces a little more, or trailer your rig, but I wouldn't trust those front hangers. On page two, you mentioned that you had pics of your "high steer arms." Since there are no steering arms in the picture, I would wonder if you actually know what it is you are talking about. I know this sounds like I'm coming off as an a**, but I would much rather you stop and look at what you are doing, than take out a bus full of nuns or something. I want to re-iderate (sp?), this is not GJC writing this. you can E-Mail me at cgbemis@yahoo.com, if you would like to dispute my observations. Bottom line, is that you are going to run what you want, but I would siggest that if this rig is to see any serious street time, you at the very least re-think your front hangers.


Montezuma@pirate4x4.com:D

[KToy]

his steering arms are in the same pic as his drivelines there yellow how could u miss them ?



dood its just a pic u can tell how reinforced his front hangers are in a picture. i dont thinks he wants to put his life on the line anyway or anyhow. i doubt he wants to kill him or anyone else. im sure he will keep his eye on it and if anything bends or cracks im sure he will put in a drop hanger thats a full square tube.

also y wouldnt it hold??? its welded directly to the frame and square tubing gets welded to the frame and the swisscheese bar so since he decided to reinforce the swisscheese bar and then weld it all up i doubt there is a problem plus this tuck was alreayd a straight axle.

check this out if u can tell in the picture that is an aor4x4 drop hanger for ifs to sas conversion. al that is is a piece of metal bent into a u shape and 2 gussets.


this kid has gussets and 2 pieces of tube reinforcing it to the frame.

u think aor would sell something that is not strong enough???????

i garuntee these hangers this guy has built is stronger than aors and my friend has been running aor drop hangers on his truck for like 3 yrs with aor sprins and orbit eyes and he wheels all the time and hasnt broke a spring or a drop hanger or a perch or or etc etc etc.....

so before u knock this kid AGAIN for like the 20th time maybe u should step back and take a look at metal strenghts and the fact that hes taking everything u said and everyone else and taken that into consideration

[robrocketanski]

while i am sure your intentions were good its a little iffy to judge his thinking and his fabbing from a few pics. especially his thinking
:rolleyes:

[GJC]

Originally posted by robrocketanski
while i am sure your intentions were good its a little iffy to judge his thinking and his fabbing from a few pics. especially his thinking
:rolleyes:
True, I honestly say you really can't see it all from a picture. I just put in a 2" drop hanger on my '81. I welded the heck out of it, all 1/4" steel with a 2x3". I still worry about it bending.
Did not mean to upset anyone, it's just that I have seen a front hanger fall apart at 75 miles an hour, not pretty.

Jon ;)

[KToy]

well didnt mean to rag on ya back man.

my drop hanger is 2.5X2.5 and its 3/8 thick and its like major overkill.

so its like he said its hard to judge from a pic and words on a screen.

but like i said if it breaks or he feels unsafe hes now out to hurt ppl but he want it setup up that way for his reasons and i doubt he will keep it if it ever shows signs of weakness

[montezuma]

Robrocket: I will agree that it was probably a little out of place for me to judge his way of thinking based off of a couple of pictures. I do think that since his dropped front mount is so tall, as well as mounted angled out and forward, that if anything he is going to be running that mount into things (like rocks) applying forces front to back on the mount. Not side to side. So his angled brace on the inside of the mount wouldn't really do much.

AtTiLiA: First off it isn't a fair comparo to put this guys mounts up against AOR's mounts. AOR'S mounts aren't nearly as tall, hence they will recieve alot less leverage put on them. Also, those yellow things in the picture are the tierod, and draglink. The steering arms are those little "arms" that bolt to the top of the knuckle.

I appologise if it came off like I was being rude, with my comments in regards to this design of spring hanger. All I'm saying is that I don't believe it was built well, or completly thought out. I think he could make something alot more stronger, and safer. I personally wouldn't run the currrent set-up.

[KToy]

nice comments, its all good with the steering i think but its his truck not mine so ima leave it at that.


my truck works and what not so ima worry about mine now

[KToy]

also aors take just as much abuse as his will and they are not braced with anything but a couple of gussets.

aors hold up is my point and so will his in my opinion. and aors take the abuse of orbit eyes as well as any rock that hit them and a lot of side stress on the freeway around corners.

i would love to hear what happens to his hangers in 6 months have him post pics of this again so we can all see if it holds or not but my personal opinion is they are fine if aors and ap and marlins hold so will this one.

ur right aor has been doing it for yrs so u think they would know what there doing. well there is made out of thinner metal than this guys are made off so y wont it hold. hes got plenty of STRONG metal to back it up. ya it might take more stress than other setups but its still strong no matter how u look at it.

and the steering im still not to worried about it im sure hes got steering arms and the draglink and tierod

good luck with all ur other stuff on ur truck man and hope to see pics of it in about 6 months when its still running strong


done with this thread