Radiator Question...

[allpro yota]

Alright, i have an 85' toyota pickup and i have a question about my radiatoy. I recently rolled my truck and want to put a bedcage on my truck. I would like to remount my radiator either on the cage or in the back of the bed but as close to the cab as possible to i can still put my quad in it. Also, i want to put an electric fan on it. And, if i put the radiator in the bed of the truck, will it get good cooling even with the electric fans on it? Thanks a lot, u guys are always a great help.
Or, tell me what u would rather do.

Troy Moore

[Ishikawa]

The first thing that comes to my mind is the ability of the water pump to distribute the extra load generated by the distance between your motor and the radiator. At low RPM's...you could run into issues regarding this, and possibly wear out your pump due to larger loads.

If you place an electric fan on the radiator, I wouldn't be concerned about cooling. The problem you will run into is by placing it so close to the cab...the air you are trying to force through the radiator fins will have no-where to go. You need air throughput, not recirculated air.

I personally don't see why you would need to do this....are you concerned just because you damaged your original in a rollover? If this is the case, I'd recommend tying in your shock mounts from your front bumper and put a cross bar over the radiator to protect for future rollovers.

Just a few ideas...now the question lies as to whether my ideas are justifiable. :D

Max

[allpro yota]

Originally posted by Ishikawa
The first thing that comes to my mind is the ability of the water pump to distribute the extra load generated by the distance between your motor and the radiator. At low RPM's...you could run into issues regarding this, and possibly wear out your pump due to larger loads.

If you place an electric fan on the radiator, I wouldn't be concerned about cooling. The problem you will run into is by placing it so close to the cab...the air you are trying to force through the radiator fins will have no-where to go. You need air throughput, not recirculated air.

I personally don't see why you would need to do this....are you concerned just because you damaged your original in a rollover? If this is the case, I'd recommend tying in your shock mounts from your front bumper and put a cross bar over the radiator to protect for future rollovers.

Just a few ideas...now the question lies as to whether my ideas are justifiable. :D

Max

Well, i wanted to put it in the back for more cooling. But, i originally wanted to put it on the rollbar for more air, but the radiator is a v-6 radiator, so its pretty big.

[pipefitter]

It can be done . But you will have to do a lot of mods . You will have to put in some ducks for cool air . You will also have to find a pump that will handle the presure that it will put under . Plus find someone to make the hoses . Whit that is it worth the trouble ?

[allpro yota]

Originally posted by pipefitter
It can be done . But you will have to do a lot of mods . You will have to put in some ducks for cool air . You will also have to find a pump that will handle the presure that it will put under . Plus find someone to make the hoses . Whit that is it worth the trouble ?

yea, i dont know if it will be worth it. like u said about the water pump, i already have a high flow water pump, would it put a lot of stress on it??? Its just that my truck runs warm and sometimes hot. I dont rockcrawl, im a sand person, so i am constantly on the throttle and want the radiator somewhere else besides the front where it can get a lot of coolant. The only reason im debating on puting it on the roll bar is because its a big ass v-6 radiator and i just got it all flushed and everything. I might just end up buying a new little aluminum one that i can throw on the roll bar and put some electric fan on it. Anyone have some electric fans that i could buy off of them????????

[chuck]

Ok, so you want to put your radiator in the bed of the truck.
Good idea........I dont know what everyone is talking about "extra load" on the system. The water pump is designed to pump coolant through the system. It dosen't care how much volume there is. Yes the distance changes when you move the radiator to the rear but the added length will help the cooling system. The longer the hoes the coolant has to travel through the more heat is lost. The problem that I can see is that this set-up might over cool the engine. This would cause a fuel injected system to run poorly. This could be over come by a change to a higher thermostat.
As for the work envolved it would be as hard as locating mounting points for the radiator, cutting and routing the coolant hoses and mabey wires for a temp sending unit (this would be only if you wanted to check temps inside the radiator or to contol the cooling fans) And the only thing I would do with the mounting of the radiator would be:
1. mount the radiator in a place that would allow ample air flow.
2. use a fan or a dual fan set-up that has a large cfm.
3. use an after-market temp control to turn on the fans. Have the contol at the radiator so that the system does not over-cool. Also this would allow you to fine tune the system for your needs
4. and mount the radiator up-right


hope this helps, also I am writing this at 1:00 am so this might not be right. Check with your local radiator shop before you try this.

[allpro yota]

The problem that I can see is that this set-up might over cool the engine.

can u really over-cool the motor??
so, i take it that this is something that i shouldn't do, huh??? I guess ill just end up buying two electric fans and just taking off my clutch fan and put the electrics on the radiator for where its at.

[chuck]

Originally posted by allpro yota
can u really over-cool the motor??
so, i take it that this is something that i shouldn't do, huh??? I guess ill just end up buying two electric fans and just taking off my clutch fan and put the electrics on the radiator for where its at.

That's what i would do.
It sounds funny but yes you can over-cool an engine. All of your fuel injected motors use a temp sending unit for the warm up cycle of your motor. If the cooling system does not reach a preset temp it will stay in this warm up cycle. Plus there are other reason that i cant think of right now. me tired.

[allpro yota]

Originally posted by chuck
That's what i would do.
It sounds funny but yes you can over-cool an engine. All of your fuel injected motors use a temp sending unit for the warm up cycle of your motor. If the cooling system does not reach a preset temp it will stay in this warm up cycle. Plus there are other reason that i cant think of right now. me tired.

Thanks a lot chuck, u have been a lot of help. *THAT GOES FOR ALL OF U GUYS*

[allpro yota]

By the way...i think i have seen a bunch of pre-runners with there radiators in the bed of there trucks...i think that is where my friend got the idea. Well, my friend also drives a JEEP so what was i listening to him for, huh?? j/k

[Ishikawa]

Chuck / AllPro,

I think I understand where you're coming from....but it is a fact that in a closed loop system you will increase the load placed on the pump when you increase volume. Load being how hard it has to work in order to push the coolant throughout the loop....this is due to the increased friction that the system sees. I did not state that it would impact the function of even a stock water pump; simply because I do not know what it is capable of....I only stated that it would be a concern that I would look into and verify it's functional capability. Period.

I guess we are to assume that you don't think you'll have any idling periods involved? Such as waiting at the starting line, or for a friend to finish an obstacle? Idle period would be my biggest concern for that setup....simply because the pump is running slower when at idle, and even if you have 30 ft. of tube....once your engine is hot, it's not going to help cool it enough to matter; unless it's 20 degrees outside.

Just something to think about....and remember, I'm not saying it cannot be done....and more importantly, it has been done and proven before. These are just things I know I would consider and solve before I assembled everything together and blew a headgasket.

Max

[chuck]

"but it is a fact that in a closed loop system you will increase the load placed on the pump when you increase volume"

Personaly I have never heard of this, And i dont see how this would be, Were not increasing the pump pressure or changing the flow rate. The water pump was designed to pump. Does it really matter how much volume there is in the system. The pump is still going to pump the same amount of coolant per min and the extra coolant is just going to sit in the radiator. Where it will have more time to lose heat.
As for the idle periords, what do you think? Rockcrawling envolves a lot of just off idle driving. So yes I have thought about it.
If any one out there can explain this better than me, let see it. All I was trying to do was help a man out with a question. All I was seeing were people beening negitve and saying that it cant or shouldnt be done. Well how are you going to learn anything if you dont try it first. I say do it, then work out all of the problem when they arise.

[pipefitter]

OK Chuck not to be a smart ass but you are wrong . Every inch of hose you add will cause the loss of presure . This means a slower flow which will cause you to run hot . Think about it . The coolant will stay in the motor longer . This means it gets a lot hotter . Plus the extra presure from moven the extra coolant will cause the pump to fail . The pump is made to handle a set amount of coolant and presure .

[chuck]

Originally posted by pipefitter
OK Chuck not to be a smart ass but you are wrong . Every inch of hose you add will cause the loss of presure . This means a slower flow which will cause you to run hot . Think about it . The coolant will stay in the motor longer . This means it gets a lot hotter . Plus the extra presure from moven the extra coolant will cause the pump to fail . The pump is made to handle a set amount of coolant and presure .
Now that's what i was looking for, thanks. Now what if you just use an aux electric water pump to bump up the pressure and/or flow.

[pipefitter]

If you do that you better make sure that you use the right wire and that your electric system can handle it . But remember you will still need air flow . If you place the radiator to close to the cab you will still over heat . Just look at the offroad racers . The radiator is in the back of the bed or up high off the bed in the middle . So if you place it close to the cab you will have to run air ducts to get air to the radiator . So allpro yota if you do still want the radiator in the back go for it . And good luck and let us know if you can get it to work .

[allpro yota]

NAAAAA, after reading all this, it has helped me..i am going to leave it where its at and put 2 electric fans on it....that should do it

THANKS GUYS!!

[killertoy]

ALLPRO,
I have my rad in the back of my toy it was very easy and cheap works great if you decide you want to do it ever I could explain to you how I did it. For the rest of you guys the original pump works fine the pump may have to move more gallons of coolant to make one revalution but the volume never changes. sure there is more friction because there is more distance but it is very minumal and does not effect the cooling. My temp reads about the same as it did pre rear rad I run mine off a toggle and just watch the temp.:eek:

[pipefitter]

How many water pumps have you had to replace . I'm sorry but with pushing the extra collant will wear the pump bearings out faster than a stock set up . And remember he's in southern cal. It gets warm donw here high 90s to 110 + . So the that might be a facter if it will work there as it dose were you are . Don't get me wrong it can be done and I'm not being a smartass about this .

[killertoy]

pipefitter,
I run my truck in mud jamborees all the time you go play for hours in a big pond with the water pumped out it doesn't get hot if you watch the temp gauge and remember to keep the fan on when it warms up. I have never replaced the water pump. my buddy is a machinist and we were going to make a smaller pulley so the pump would move the water faster, but after talking with a few guys that run the same setup with their chevys they said don't worry about it, so i didnt and it worked just fine. The water volume at the pump never changes ever, in theory your right but in real life it is such a minumal difference in pressure it will take years to wear out the pump in either case. I understand your point but i do not like the way you come off the ALL KNOWING ONE, I have done this mod and it does work I do not mean to be a smart ass either but I have more experience than you in this area sorry.

[Ishikawa]

in theory your right but in real life it is such a minumal difference in pressure it will take years to wear out the pump in either case.

This is what we need to know....and as I said earlier, my comments were based on possible scenarios and what to avoid. I would still recommend figuring out some calculations on the heat transfer of this setup and the volume constraint of the closed loop system on the pump....regardless of if it works for you, my question is what is optimal?

My point is that I love my engine too much to just not know, and hope that it works because it did for someone else once....and comparing Chevy water-pumps to Toyota water-pumps without any hard data is like saying a D30 is equivelant to a D60 because they both have diffs and knuckles and steering arms attached. :D

Run the calcs....or find someone that knows how to figure this out for you if you don't know how. I work for $1,000,000/hr if you want me to help :D Then I can retire after about 2 hours worth of work....wooohooo!

Max

[pipefitter]

Hey killerertoy I'm not a know it all . But I do know about water flow and pressure lost . I worked in the bussness of moving water from a living . Yes it was only fire sprinklers but I still had to go to school for water flow and pressure that it takes to move it . Yes by adding a few feet of hose or pipe the lost is small but you still have to move more . And if you add more coolant the pump has to move more weight . The more the weight the harder the pump workers . So here is my point if coolant is 8 lbs a gallon and if you are stock you run almost 2 gallons your pump has to move 16 lbs of coolant . So if you add more coolant the weight go up . The pump was built to move 2 gallons of coolant ( 16 lbs ) . Now you add more the pump workers harder then it was built for so it would be fair to say that the bearings well wear faster ? And that the flow rate would drop . Yes it only might be a little but it would still drop .

[Leigh Shonosky]

A good cheap way to buy an electric fan is to go to your local scrap yard and pull a couple of of an older car. Iv seen nice ones on early 90's honda's