The SUPRA engine in your rig thread

[WildYoats]

I am not to familiar with all these other engine swaps and am curious to know a little more about some options. I am keeping up on the 4.3 GM thread, but am just as curious about the Supra swap.

Am I understanding the Supra engine will bolt right up to the Toy 5speed tranny? From what I have read, is this Supra swap a lot easier? I would much rather keep it Toyota throughout in the beast if I elect to replace my poor worn engine...

Input please....

[Greg@RME]

All my info & some parts have been from Rob, so he's the real Guru on these. He know's the 7M swap inside & out. This is my first experience with it, but so far, I'm really impressed!

Here's the basics of the swap-

I chose the non-Turbo, just to keep parts breakage to a minimum. I think it's important to maintain a rig w/ a balanced drivetrain. I plan on keeping the other Toyota components, no Dana 60's here. All of my info is based on the non-Turbo.

The 7MGE was available in '86.5-'93 Supras & is a well proven motor. I've been driving my '89 for the past year & it's been pretty impressive. It's a straight six (Plenty of Torque) & DOHC, 4 Valves per Cyl, meaning that the thing really wakes up @ over 4,000 RPM. It will pull pretty hard till 6,500-6,800 RPM. (Mine has 133k on it, a new/rebuilt motor may be better)

The 7M flaws are Rod Knocks & Head Gasket problems. The Rod Knocks seem to happen with mileage, but aren't detremental. Head Gasket problems usually occour on Turbo engines that are turning high boost & using the stock Head Gaskets. The Heat takes them out.

Bellhousing & Tranny info-

The Turbo (7MGTE) & non-Turbo (7MGE) motors have diffrent Bellhousings & Trannys. The non-Turbo bellhousing has the same tranny bolt pattern & will bolt up to your Toyota 4x4, 4 Cyl Tranny (W56). The input shaft on the Tranny has the same spline count as the Supra clutch, so you use all the Supra Clutch parts.

Moving onto the Motor Mounts-

You need Mounts from a 1st Generation Supra (5MGE Motor) inorder to drop the 7MGE into your 22R/RE Mounts. You only need the Block side of the Mount, not the Rubber Isolator. The older mounts bolt onto the 7MGE Block forward of the original mounts, & will allow you to drop the 7M right onto the 22R/RE Motor Mount Stud. There's about a 2-3 degree diffrence in the surface of the 2 Mounts, but it's not a huge deal. Rob mentioned that he was looking into building some Motor Mount shims, to compensate. Also, there's a Alignment Pin (1/4"??) on the 5MGE Mount... You should drill the 22R/RE mount so the Pin will drop in. (I took the Grinder to mine, since the motor was in already & I returned my borrowed Engine Hoist.)

How about Exhaust?

The Manifold is on the Passenger side, so you either have to run it under the Motor and out the Drivers side (Which I plan on doing) or deal with the T-Case & Gas Tank being in the way.

Cooling?

I'm going to use the 4 Cyl Radiator for now... If it has issues with cooling, I'll get a Radiator for a 4.3 Swap. I was told by a Radiator Shop that the 4 Cyl Radiator was capable of cooling a Ford 5.0 V8, so it ought to cool a 3.0 Toyota engine. You'll have to move the radiator forward about 1.5-2" and run a Elec. Fan or 2 on the front. I plan on running 2, 10" Electric Fans. The Coolant inlet & outlet need to be swapped on the Top & Bottom. I had a local shop do this for $45.

Fuel Delivery-

The 22RE & 7MGE have similar pressure requirements. I believe the 7MGE specs list 1 more PSI than the 22RE Pump.... that's all. I'm going to try the 22RE Pump & if I have staration probs at high RPM's, then I'll get a Supra Pump or something aftermarket.

Dropping in the Engine-

There's about 3/4" of room between the Firewall & Radiator support, as the motor goes in. You'll need to drop the T-Case(s) & Tranny, inorder to get the engine in. It's very tight! Once it's in, it is a great fit.

Misc. Issues-

The Battery on the 4x4's, sits where the AFM goes on the Supra. I'll either move my battery to the Drivers side or put it in the Bed.



200 Horsepower, 190 Ft Lbs, & no pricy Adapters or welding in new Motor Mounts? I'll take the 7MGE any day over a 4.3.


So far, that's what I have done. The motor is in, the Tranny, T-Cases & Driveshafts are all bolted up & the Radiator has been worked on. I still need to build the Rad. Mounts & get the Electric Fans. From there, it's wiring & routing fuel lines, hooking up the radiator hoses & finally exhaust.

My swap has been taking forever because I started with a 22R to EFI Swap, then ditched it after I had some problems. My options were to rebuild the 22RE ($1,200 min) or look into a swap. So far, I believe my 7M Swap has cost me under $1000. :D


http://www.rockymountainextreme.com/attachment.php?postid=57898





Here's a link to my progress on RME. (There's a few pics & alot of BS)-



7MGE Swap (http://www.rockymountainextreme.com/showthread.php?postid=51217#post51217)

[Greg@RME]

Another point....

If you have already regeared your Rig, the 7MGE should work great with deeper gears. The 4.3, on the other hand, would prefer the stock gears.

[WildYoats]

Thanks for the awesome reply Greg.... Hmmm, gots me thinking. :D

Greg, what about the wiring portion of it.... A bear or not too bad. I have heard some difficulty with the 4.3 wiring, or complexity at least.

And how about weight. I would imagine it is a tad heavier that the 22RE, Would it require heavier duty springs in front as maybe the 4.3 would?

Oh Rob... Come on Mr. Superunner, give us your input too.

[Greg@RME]

No problem, just glad I could share!

The 7MGE is pretty heavy, but I doubt it weighs more than a 4.3.... I think my shortblock weighed in at around 300 lbs. I currently have some stiff YJ springs in the front of my Toy & it seems to sit at around the same height as the 22R did. I'd guess that there may be up to a 100 lb. diffrence between a 22R and a 7MGE.

As for Wiring.... I don't know yet. Rob mentioned he'll assist me when the time comes. He did say that there's about 7 wires that you need to run to the 7MGE Engine Harness. (Also, he said the wiring was the easy part!)

I'm sure once Rob sees this, he'll have plenty more to add.

[robrocketanski]

so if i am reading this correctly the only stuff you really need from the supra is-
the engine and its harness
afm (intake plumbing if you want)
then some other little things you can pick up elsewhere?
if so i am not sure why this swap isnt alittle more popular, or it may be a good time to invest in a couple rusted out supras:D

[robrocketanski]

by the way RME is a great board:D

[Greg@RME]

Originally posted by robrocketanski
so if i am reading this correctly the only stuff you really need from the supra is-
the engine and its harness
afm (intake plumbing if you want)
then some other little things you can pick up elsewhere?
if so i am not sure why this swap isnt alittle more popular.

Yeah, that's about it. Make sure you get the Bellhousing for a non-Turbo, too. If you could find a running 7MGE Supra, then you'd be setup from the get-go. I've wasted alot of time chasing things like Bolts, small but needed parts, etc....

I think this swap is growing in popularity, I've heard of about 10-12 others doing the same thing. Some have been Turbo motors, others have been non-Turbo. It just depends on what you want. Of course, like any swap, there's bound to be some hangups. Mine still isn't running (Mostly due to lack of time), so my story isn't completed yet.

Thanks for the complement on the Site! It's coming along nicely. :)

[robrocketanski]

i have been considering a turbo on my 91 (wheel speed in the mud/sand) which would work well but for about the same cost i could do an m series emgine.....and have a hair more hp and torque:D but i will worry about it later.

[4rnr4evr]

i had a cherry 89 turbo supra w/ new moter and turbo from japan.it was a monster i hated selling it god it was awsome. verry expensive to work on and tight places in the engine comp.... oh well my 2001 ram air trans am takes care of that itch.

[robrocketanski]

i just found a rusted out supra so next spring i should have it rebuilt and in my truck. i would try and do it sooner but i think i should stick to trying to finish my sas/trans rebuild/crawler install/hy-steer/rear spring swap :D

[Greg@RME]

Nice to hear, guys! I need to get mine running ASAP. It's going to be a blast to drive.

If anyone needs a 7MGE Motor, Harness & Computer, I have one. 7MGE For Sale (http://www.wildyoats.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=19240#post19240)

[Santerianumero1]

Originally posted by Greg@RME
Nice to hear, guys! I need to get mine running ASAP. It's going to be a blast to drive.

If anyone needs a 7MGE Motor, Harness & Computer, I have one posted in For Sale.


From what I recall, Rob was looking for a 7mge (non-turbo). I think he may still but I am unsure. Give him a call, I'm sure he'll let you know.

Rob's a good guy. He did me good with my 85 supra swap. He was obviously the master mind behind my project, and I can honestly say I have a Japanese Rocket now. As for the 7mge and 7mgte breakage tolerances, you are correct. You probably want the low end torque that the 7mge develops at lower RPMs.

Thanks,

Doug

[Greg@RME]

Sweet, thanks for the tip. I'll give Rob a jingle.

[RussFEST]

Hello..

Well, my brothers done this swap and alot more people here in bc are doing it now. heres a link.

http://bb.bc4x4.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16299&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

he did the turbo supra swap and your right things break. He's broken the stock 4.10's on a straightaway two months after he put it in and has now gone to v6 4.56 gears. As for the tranny/clutch he smoked a centreforce dual friction clutch with only 4000 km on it and the stock toy 5 speed tranny, he did change the bellhousing front end of the 5 speed to a supra bell housing.

Since then we built up a hybrid tranny to front half of a supra tranny and a rear half of a toy v6 so it'll have the four wheel transfer case. Put all supra gears inside with new synchro's. It was a hard job using gear pullers and such into the v6 tranny.
Heres a link to the pics of the finished product. Oh yeah, with this it uses the supra clutch so its strong enough for the power, it WONT slip. Since then he's had no problems with the drivetrain (he has changed the rear drive shaft to a one piece, and the front is an extended shaft otherwise it wouldnt have worked). The read driveshaft flange that bolts to the output on the tranny had to be drilled to fit as the flanges were different, super easy. Pount out the studs on the tranny output, mate it to the driveshaft flange (it gets centred due to the inner lip) and drill four new holes, use the old nuts from the driveshaft..

http://bb.bc4x4.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28289

Oh yeah, we also used the supra rad with two acura fans wire-feed welded in front of the rad suuport (it fits behind the stock grill) and on the right hand side of the rad is the oil cooler. The exhaust is three inch with a cat and flowmaster, the intake is a k&n filter with a custom braket, the battery of his toy had to be moved to the left side of the engine compartment.

In the gas tank he has a high flow fuel pump that puts out like 500l/min IIRC. The wiring is the HARD part but he got it spliced together into his origional 22re display in the cab, changed the potentiometer on the rpm tach and it works now as well. He's helped three people that I know of now do it...

I think thats all if I remember more Ill add to this. All I got to say is its a wicked swap, the power it puts out is insane and I think its a better swap than a 350 or 4.3. Because of weight savings and the fact its ALL toy.

Russ

[Greg@RME]

Thanks for the input Russ! Sounds like your Bro's truck is pretty badass!

[wv4runner]

Hey greg,

I can't view any of the pics on RME, they are all red x's. :confused: Anyway i can see them? Thanks

[Greg@RME]

Originally posted by wv4runner
Hey greg,

I can't view any of the pics on RME, they are all red x's. :confused: Anyway i can see them? Thanks


Yeah, you need to be registered on the Forum to view the Pics.... sorry!

[TNToy]

I dunno, I'm leaning toward the 4.3L... I'm thinking I'll probably run a 4.3 with a 75HP shot on the bottle for really gnarly hillclimbs and mudholes.

My primary motivations are that I have no reason to:
1) Keep a tranny already in need of a rebuild
2) Keep a tranny that wouldn't hold up to my right foot and a 7M anyway

Plus I'd like to convert to an auto tranny. IMO they're probably the best way to keep toy axles alive with more than 150HP and 38+ inch tires if you have a heavy right foot.

Wildyoats... when you heard about wiring difficulties with the 4.3L, I assume they were running a CPI or similar motor? If you can't wire a TBI chevy motor, you've no business in an eninge bay. :D

[pitter]

russ your brother helped my friend with the wireing and he said it was easy when he helped. his truck actually has some power now. how do you hook up the factory tach? he has had no time to try and figure it out since he is forest fire fighting? he did the 7mgte swap. if i was to do a swap i think it would be a 7mge without a turbo, but im broke so that wont be happening.:D

[SuperRunner]

sweet, nice setup. Have you shimmed the wastegate yet?

Get that IC on.

Hey, I want some more info on that tach hookup. Where did you tie into the tach wire. I was working on one a couple weeks ago, and for the love of pete, I could not find it.

Thanks and good job!

[SuperRunner]

Originally posted by Santerianumero1
From what I recall, Rob was looking for a 7mge (non-turbo). I think he may still but I am unsure. Give him a call, I'm sure he'll let you know.

Rob's a good guy. He did me good with my 85 supra swap. He was obviously the master mind behind my project, and I can honestly say I have a Japanese Rocket now. As for the 7mge and 7mgte breakage tolerances, you are correct. You probably want the low end torque that the 7mge develops at lower RPMs.

Thanks,

Doug

I acutally ended up putting a turbo motor in, so I don't need any more non-turbo's. In fact, I will probably never do a non-turbo again. Not worth the time for me anyway.

[SuperRunner]

here are some pics of my latest swap. Finished this one last week.

http://www.supracharged.com/other_trucks/john/done_front.jpg

http://www.supracharged.com/other_trucks/john/grilless.jpg

[southern_yota]

i'm just curious, but whats wrong with the 3.4L from a TRD runner or pickup? correct me if i'm wrong but i think that puts about the same amount of power to the ground as a 7mge, then there's a supercharger you can get if you need more power... just my thought on this
or if you have some money to spend there's the DOA motor, but i know i sure as hell dont have that much to spend on one of thems :D

[wv4runner]

Since supra engines have been around longer, they are cheaper and more abundant. Also a turbo supra engine has much more potential to make more power.

[pitter]

a supra engine bolts up without any trouble. a v6 truck would be a cood candidate like this for a 3.4.....


http://00-04-5a-d7-aa-20.bconnected.net/

[mogwai snot]

Also a Supra engine has much more potential to make more power You will be eating your words shortly. Have you seen the connecting rods on a 3.4L (beefy) lots of potential there. Just have to finish this semester in school, and then I can dump some cash into the 3.4L.

[Greg@RME]

Originally posted by mogwai snot
You will be eating your words shortly. Have you seen the connecting rods on a 3.4L (beefy) lots of potential there. Just have to finish this semester in school, and then I can dump some cash into the 3.4L.

Not to knock on the 3.4 or your project, but you think you can beat 600-700hp? Cause you can get that out of a 7MGTE with just a little $$. :D

[YellowJacket]

Originally posted by mogwai snot
You will be eating your words shortly.
Come on Jeff! I'm going to be coming over tommorow to show you my swap, and then we'll see what you have to say. I'll have to ask Melissa if we can take it up to school!

[TNToy]

Originally posted by mogwai snot
You will be eating your words shortly. Have you seen the connecting rods on a 3.4L (beefy) lots of potential there.
Tell you what: Pull 350HP out of the 3.4 for under $500 and then we'll take you seriously. From what Rob has said previously, and what I've seen lurking on various Supra B.B.s, thats a matter of a 3 inch exhaust, some washers under the wastegate, and a couple of other inconsequential mods. :)

[YellowJacket]

Originally posted by TNToy
Tell you what: Pull 350HP out of the 3.4 for under $500 and then we'll take you seriously. From what Rob has said previously, and what I've seen lurking on various Supra B.B.s, thats a matter of a 3 inch exhaust, some washers under the wastegate, and a couple of other inconsequential mods. :) Exactly. I'm sure the 3.4 is a better motor (it's newer!) but the I6 3.0 is still a reliable Toyota motor. If you like Toyota's and power than this is what you want. And there is no arguing with the price of the 3.0 and it's parts v.s. the 3.4. I don't even have an intercooler yet, shimmed wastegate, or even my exhaust finished but have been driving it around for weeks and I am a firm believer in the 7M!

EVEN IF I WANTED A 3.4 I COULDN'T AFFORD ONE! Especially if I was to build it up!

Show me the best supercharged 3.4 and we will see...

[4rnr4evr]

i had an 89 supra turdo it had a brand new turbo and moter from japan. it was almost scarry it pulled so hard out of the hole and when the turbo started to spool up holly shit ! i worship supras i now have a 2001 ram air trans am over 350horse and torque and i would seariously think trice about raceing a turbo supra. ive driven both v6toyota and 4.3 chevy and im tellin ya a 7mgte is a searious monster of a 6 cyl. go to www.suprastore.com if you dont believe me. oh you of little faithe

[Bullet]

I am going with a 7m non turbo in my 87 Runner, I think I can get the whole swap done for under $1000.00. I got my engine ecu and wiring harness for $400.00. The cheapest 3.4 I have seen is $1750.00. In my application there isn’t any motor mounts to move, and the transmission will stay where it’s at. Money wise and down time I think this will be the best swap for me. And it will be nice not to get passed by old VW busses, guys on bikes or old ladies with walkers any more.

[Greg@RME]

Originally posted by Bullet
I am going with a 7m non turbo in my 87 Runner, I think I can get the whole swap done for under $1000.00. I got my engine ecu and wiring harness for $400.00. The cheapest 3.4 I have seen is $1750.00. In my application there isn’t any motor mounts to move, and the transmission will stay where it’s at. Money wise and down time I think this will be the best swap for me. And it will be nice not to get passed by old VW busses, guys on bikes or old ladies with walkers any more.

That's awsome! Are you still IFS or have you hacked that out?

[YellowJacket]

We did it with our IFS, IT SUCKED! We had to modify the oil pan and pickup.

[Greg@RME]

Originally posted by YellowJacket
We did it with our IFS, IT SUCKED! We had to modify the oil pan and pickup.

Exactally why I'm asking. :D

[Bullet]

I have my 87 body on a 85 frame and running gear so I have a solid front axle.

[SuperRunner]

Originally posted by mogwai snot
You will be eating your words shortly. Have you seen the connecting rods on a 3.4L (beefy) lots of potential there. Just have to finish this semester in school, and then I can dump some cash into the 3.4L.

Craig paisly owner of one of the fasted supras in the world with 7 second 1/4 miles at over 200 mph would beg to differ with that.

If fact his next project is a tundra and he is ripping out the v8 and dropping in a 2JZ.

The 3.4 is a good motor, but it is a V design. The V design was used to put a bigger motor in a smaller space. That does not make it better. An inline motor has less friction, better power curve, runs smoother and cooler. The 3.4 is no competition for the 7MGTE even supercharged. Although, it is a good reliable motor, with good power for pulling.

[YellowJacket]

Check these guys out! titanmotorsports.com (http://titanmotorsports.com/)

[YellowJacket]

Go to the RACE CAR section and click on WORLD'S FASTEST STREET SUPRA.

[AkWhtBst]

Just another question I have not seen covered anywhere. To fit the 7mge do you need to have any lift or will they fit with stock springs on. I just bought a 85 straight axle fourrunner with a bad 22re and want to run the supra engine but I am not lifting it till summer if I do. I still have my 81 truck to wheel for now. Thanks
Tim

[SuperRunner]

No lift required, just makes it easier to work on it.

[AkWhtBst]

Sweet. Thanks alot.
Tim

[Dawson]

I have wiring diagrams for the toyota cressida ecu. If anybody needs it. They are a little different than the supra.

[azbearfan]

not sure on this, but I read that you should have a 2" body lift to make it easier or else you will need to do some hammerin on your firewall.

[SuperRunner]

2" body lift really mainly helps with radiator selection and ease of doing the swap. It will help on clearance but some hammering is still required even with a 2" body. Only way to get away from the hammering is move the engine forward.

In the future, I would like to offer a modifed EGR valve, and coolant hoses so hammering is not necessary.

[85xtracab]

i know that most of you guys were saying how the turbo supra motor is good but its too much for the truck and you will start to break things well if you took the R151 tranny from the 86-87 turbo 22RE trucks and ran it with the supra turbo would that help stop breakage or not really?

[SuperRunner]

That is exactly what I have done. You need a modified bellhousing or make yourself a custom R154F by combining the R151F with the R154. From what I understand, you get a terrible 1st gear, but that is the price you pay.

I myself made a bellhousing, and at least one other that I know of has done the same.

[85xtracab]

so you run a turbo supra motor and the breakage is pretty low??

[SuperRunner]

Well, I don't know about low, but I am not breaking the transmission anymore.

I blew up:

2 trannies
5 rear drivelines
2 front drivelines
2 front u-joints
1 front 4x4 hub
2 toyota 8" ring&pinions
1 D60 set of spider gears
5 D60 axle shafts

It got to the point where the only think I was breaking was rear axle shafts. The only way to get away from that is to go 35 spline, or a harder alloy. Then of course I was pretty easy on the front end. You really need a D60 in the front to handle all the power.

[illiand]

Do you happen to know if its possible to make hybrid tranny with a R154 and an R150 from a V6 truck? I have a '94 V6 in need of an engine and this swap is very, very tempting, and it would be nice to now have to buy a new transmission to do it.

Does anybody have any info/links about doing this swap for a 3VZE? I know i would need to fab motor mounts and modify the oil pan and pickup if i dont SAS before then, but not much beyond that.

Thanks.

[SuperRunner]

It hasn't been done before with the R150F, but I am sure it could. Main difference is the tailhousing, and you keep the tailhousing and the output shaft of the R150F.

Check out my site, the latest swap I did was a v6 with IFS.

[SJP]

I kno wits been a long one, but reading this and the other links about the 5m or 7m swap just got me crazy. I don't want the extra power of a turbo, but the availability of the 7m is big.
Let me get this straight...
For a 5m swap;
motor bell housing,5m mounts, harness, and cutom exhaust and wiring a thats it?
For a 7m swap:
motor, (5m bell),5m mounts harness, exhaust and custom wiring?

The wiring, is it that difficult, or is it cut and splice, and wrap in tape, and pull through firewall, or does it require pulling new harness through oold truck?

What about a/c and p/s? This is my DD, so I need this stuff, especially in SC.

How much harder does the IFS, make it? Is it still doable?
Mor More More, I need this!!!!!!
Steve

[SuperRunner]

Originally posted by SJP
I kno wits been a long one, but reading this and the other links about the 5m or 7m swap just got me crazy. I don't want the extra power of a turbo, but the availability of the 7m is big.
Let me get this straight...
For a 5m swap;
motor bell housing,5m mounts, harness, and cutom exhaust and wiring a thats it?
For a 7m swap:
motor, (5m bell),5m mounts harness, exhaust and custom wiring?

The wiring, is it that difficult, or is it cut and splice, and wrap in tape, and pull through firewall, or does it require pulling new harness through oold truck?

What about a/c and p/s? This is my DD, so I need this stuff, especially in SC.

How much harder does the IFS, make it? Is it still doable?
Mor More More, I need this!!!!!!
Steve

I wouldn't bother with a 5M. You only get 150hp and like 170 ft/lbs of torque. I would go 7M. It is pretty much the same swap. Wiring is a smap. Just cut and splice a few wires, and it will run like a champ.

p/s is easy. just use the 7M pump and make some custom flex lines. A/C is a little harder too do. You will have to work some magic with the front of the truck to make that work, but is completely doable.

IFS, just makes it a little harder. I have done a couple with IFS. YOu need an oil pan and oil pickup mod. If you have experience welding, it whould be pretty easy to do. Check out the 95 4runner on my site, you will see how I made the oilpan.

[SJP]

Whats the site?

[SuperRunner]

http://www.supracharged.com

[sparky]

okay i need some major help. and noone is able to help.

my 5mge is tagging the firewall pretty good on my 85. the heater hoses will not hook up. i have less then 1/4 inch between the engine and firewall. i need my heater. will it get screwed up if i hammer in the firewall? if i bult a custom firewall to clear the motor would i need to moe my heater?

i really hate body lifts. i have enough room for tires. it also looks like my cam gears are going to hit the hood.

i am also triing to wire this into the existing wiring from my 22re. it looks like on the wiring diagram there are 2 relays for the efi system. can i use just the one from my 22re?

i just need some help with wiring!!!

on the 22re which wire is the speed sensor? where is this sensor located?

which wires care for the efi relay?

it seems like the fuel pump wires plug right into the plug from the supra motor. do i need to move any of these wires around or are they alright?

please help me.

thanks

:Freak:

[seth]

How is the low range on the non turbo compared to the 22-RE? The one thing I can say about a 22, is that it can bog down a lot without stalling, and I would hate to lose that, you think it being a car engine, it would be more likely to stall at low RPM's?

[Greg@RME]

Originally posted by seth
How is the low range on the non turbo compared to the 22-RE? The one thing I can say about a 22, is that it can bog down a lot without stalling, and I would hate to lose that, you think it being a car engine, it would be more likely to stall at low RPM's?


I drove a '89 non-turbo Supra for about a year. It had a very strong bottom end, plenty of torque, especially compared to a 22R/RE. Even then, it really comes alive in the higher RPM's.

What's max torque on a 22R/RE? 100-110ft/lbs? I think the non-turbo 7MGE is around 180-190ft/lbs.

[SuperRunner]

Originally posted by seth
How is the low range on the non turbo compared to the 22-RE? The one thing I can say about a 22, is that it can bog down a lot without stalling, and I would hate to lose that, you think it being a car engine, it would be more likely to stall at low RPM's?

Y duz everyone think dat supra motors be Caddy motors. I guess some
22R be also some Caddy mota', since ya know, they put them in
celicas too. Oh, whut about some 350 V-8? Dat gots'ta be some car mota' too
since it be in cars.

Some supra mota' has quite some bit mo' low fat-lady torque dan some 22R.

[azbearfan]

Originally posted by SuperRunner
Y duz everyone think dat supra motors be Caddy motors. I guess some
22R be also some Caddy mota', since ya know, they put them in
celicas too. Oh, whut about some 350 V-8? Dat gots'ta be some car mota' too
since it be in cars.

Some supra mota' has quite some bit mo' low fat-lady torque dan some 22R.

:Freak:

[Ghetto]

I am curious, I have an 85 manual 4runner. I just bought an 88 supra with the 7mgte. Can I reuse my clutch or will I need to get one for a supra.

[YellowJacket]

To mate the stock tranny with the 7M from my 4Runner we had to use a 5M bellhousing. I'm pretty sure you have to get a 5M clutch also.

[YellowJacket]

5M clutch, flywheel, and pressure plate.

[SuperRunner]

7M N/A bellhousing and clutch and flywheel will work too. 5M's are usually just easier to find.

[Ghetto]

What are people using for a clutch? I have a dual friction centerforce in my truck right now. I have always used that in the past and had good luck. Is anybody else using that?
When I get on the supra sights they have clutch's for like 1500.00 dollars. I am not going to to do mods to go over 300 horses. I don't want to pay more for the clutch than I did for the whole car.:puke:

[SuperRunner]

$1500 clutches are for MKIV owners who want do push 800+ horses.

The centerforce should do just fine for 300hp.

[seth]

Well, I started my 7MGE swap about 2 and a half months ago, and it has gone quite nicely. I really have to say that the wiring is only bad if you have to figure out what every wire does. Having done that, there are only 8 wires you need for the engine to run, and 8 more if you want you gauges and reverse lights. I have a chart of all the wires that I hope to post soon when I finish.
My one big piece of advice is that the easiest way to do this swap is to just get a donor supra, otherwise be prepared to spend A LOT of time tracking down parts. Also, don't ever let a toyota dealership tell you that toyota "no longer produces that part", because its bullsh*t.

Right now, I have mine running, I just need to do my final modifications to get my pusher fans installed, then get an exaust. When I do I hope to get a complete parts list of every little thing you'll need (like clutch release bearing clips and fork).

I would recommend this swap to anyone who is looking for more power though. I only have about 60 hours of my time into the actual work, including pulling the old motor, and If I didn't care about noise violations, I could drive it.

[SuperRunner]

cool. Let us know when you drive it.

Wiring isn't too bad. Did you check out my site? I have some pretty good info on all the wiring.

[seth]

Yea, when I started this swap, You didn't have nearly as detailed of instructions on the wiring, Oh well, if anything ever goes wrong, I have a very deep knowledge of the wiring. One thing I did notice is you left the reverse lights out of the M1 connector. Your site and the one on the 4x4wire site were super helpful.

[SuperRunner]

ahh, you don't need reverse lights to pass inspection :D

[68bullit]

looking at doing the supra swap in my 85 runner as well.probably the turbo motor so what bellhousing do i need and what year models do they come from?also what year are the 5m motor mounts from?thanks

[Matt87pu]

So if I'm reading this right the Supra engine just drops right in pretty much? I was thinking about doing this swap right after I bought my truck. Found a running supra engine in the paper for $50 and the guy told me it would never fit, that it was 6 inches longer then my engine compartment and I would have to cut the radiator support and everything and move it up 6 inches..Well that sucks. I could have already done the swap. Oh well now I know.

[seth]

The Engine Is definitly longer than a 22RE, and I had to go with a pusher fan because space is SO tight, but it does fit, if you don't have IFS. If you have IFS, you are probably going to need to do some cutting, or have a drivetrain/body lift.

[antleredboy]

My friend has invested over 30k in his regular single turbo supra. My other friend is the one who built this supra. So many problems came along on this show car just from swapping from a small single turbo, to a twin turbo, to a big fat single turbo. Transmission, driveshafts, etc. have all been destroyed. This motor pushes out over 700h.p. I kid you not.

My question is how much will I have to spend to put a non turbo motor in my toyota, and what will have problems down the road after completing this project?

[seth]

I am going to have about $2300 when I get the exaust in this weekend. Its a 7MGE Swap (non-turbo). Not to bad, give this is the first swap, or major work I have ever done to my car.

Supra Clutch and Flywheel:$300
Bellhousing, Slave Cylendar, Cluck Fork, Release Berring:$150
ECU, Wiring Harness: $100 off EBay
5MGE motor mounts: $50
Throttle Body, Intake, AFM, Cone Filter: $150
Random ECU Sensors - $0 - 300, depending on what is missing/broken
Custom Exaust: $400 (done by a shop)
Nice Electric Pusher Fan: $200
New Radiator: $150? (I am going to see how the old one holds up)
Wire, Nuts, Bolts, RTV, $100
Alternator, PS Pump: $40 on ebay

Really, your best bet is to buy a wrecked supra, and get your parts from there. I spent a LONG time tracking down some parts, like the Clutch Shift Fork, and the bellhousing. If I had the original car, It really would have been so much easier.

Also, check out www.supracharged.com and http://www.off-road.com/toyota/tech/supraswap/index.html

If you are going to track down your own parts, I recommend searching for "parting out supra" on Ebay, in the title and description. Usually you can give the person a list of the crap you need, and they will make you a nice offer.

[sparky]

i think i got my 5mge in for under $1000. and i didn't have the whole car. you just gotta wheel and deal. these cars are rare around here, but no one except me was buying the parts. and my motor has under 60000 miles.

can't beat that price rebuilding a 22re!!! you'll have atleast $1500 into a well rebuilt 22re, and never make the power and torque in a straight 6!

[YellowJacket]

Originally posted by antleredboy
My friend has invested over 30k in his regular single turbo supra. My other friend is the one who built this supra. So many problems came along on this show car just from swapping from a small single turbo, to a twin turbo, to a big fat single turbo. Transmission, driveshafts, etc. have all been destroyed. This motor pushes out over 700h.p. I kid you not.

My question is how much will I have to spend to put a non turbo motor in my toyota, and what will have problems down the road after completing this project?

First, all the time that you are going to be putting into a swap like this, you might as well put in the turbo motor with unlimited upgrades.

Second, especially with a non-turbo and limited upgrades, you shouldn't have any problems breaking at all.

With the turbo motor in my 4Runner, I'm now at about 260 HP and haven't broke... yet.

[934rnr]

I found 2 vehicles with 5mge's at a junkard here. A 83 supra and a 82 cressida. The cressida motor is complete. The supra has been picked apart. However the supra motor has the belhousing and the wiring harness seems intact. The cressida is a automaic of course so the bellhousing is useless.
The supra has like 180,000 miles on the motor and the cressida is like at 158,000 miles. I was told I could have both motors w/harnesses and the supra bellhousing for around $400. So what do you think I should do?

Combine the supra parts on the cressida motor and put that in my truck?
Just get the engine mounts bellhousing and look for a 7mge?

I heard you want the Cressida oil pan because it's a mid oil pan and it will work better with crossover steering.

[logan]

hey guys i'm not sure but this seems like an ok place to put my ???
ok so ive got an 82 SB 4x4(of course) with the stock L45 tranny
if i wanted to do a 7mge swap would it work??
any help is greatly appreciated

[934rnr]

You'll need to swap your transmission to a g54 or w56 to get a 7mge to fit in there.
You have to use the bellhousing for the 5mge and the l43 and l52 transmissions do not have a removable bellhousing.

[YellowJacket]

SuperRunner says that you need to use the 7M oil pan. Although it would help to modify it to make it deeper for when you are at crazy inclines and declines for long periods of time.

[keyice]

hey I got a 5m in mine, 7m pan, what the hell do you do about the dipstick, it is in the shallow of the pan, any idea's???

[SuperRunner]

You can either drill out the hole where the 7M dipsitck goes, or you can just cut the end of your 5M dipstick. As long as you don't cut off the part that marks FULL.

[keyice]

where on the block is the 7mge hole I can drill it not a problem.

[Sunflash]

Well that solves it this is now my choice of engines. All the info here and on the linked sights is great and convinced me that an EFI swap on the 22/20R is just not worth the money or time. Thanks and now all I have to do is start looking for a wrecked supra or cressida when I get back to Alaska.
-Zack-

[SuperRunner]

where on the block is the 7mge hole I can drill it not a problem.

There is a flat place just under the exhaust manifold that you can drill into. I have drilled that out before.

[SASvanguy]

What about the Lexus 4.o v8, little better numbers than a 7mge, non-interference heads, and just as cheap, can/have found the complete set up for 12-1500$.

Walking away from my van, and the fantasies of SASing it, and am getting an 85 runner, still have a hard on for this swap.

Not as cool in a runner, as a van, but still cool.

Have heard from someone I esteem to be knowledgable about Toyota (drives a van, had a SAS runnah, lives in CA) that it is the same as the 7m/5m (ad nauseam) bolt pattern.

[i_isntreal]

Just finished swapping an '85 5mge into my '79 a few weeks ago. Took a heck of a lot of work, but was worth it. Lots of useful info on this site to help me out.

The used W56 tranny I picked up for the swap doesn't have much life left. Does anybody know if I can use gears from older toyota trannies? (I've got a couple lying around)

[SASvanguy]

I have a g53 tranny in the van, can I bolt my bell housing to a truck tranny?
End goal is a Supra/Lexus engine transplant, but for now, need tranny, and will start this one piece at a time.
Then the 5m bell housing to the truck tranny, and so on and so forth.

[SASvanguy]

Just finished swapping an '85 5mge into my '79 a few weeks ago. Took a heck of a lot of work, but was worth it. Lots of useful info on this site to help me out.

The used W56 tranny I picked up for the swap doesn't have much life left. Does anybody know if I can use gears from older toyota trannies? (I've got a couple lying around)
Call Marlin, extremely helpful, it was actually Marlin who took my call, and I feel much better about doing what I want to do.

[FLArunner86]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/toyota-7mge-motor-supra-1987-1992-cressida-JDm-50k-NR_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33615QQitemZ80326811 44QQrdZ1

here is 7

[YeaIKnow]

so you have to use the w56 tranny and transfercase... any idea how much longer this setup is than the L52? would it require new mounts for the tranny/tcase? driveline work? just curious how much i'll be getting into on my lil 83 if i also decide to do this swap

[i_isntreal]

The w56 was 4 inches longer than the stock tranny. I had to make a new x-member, and get the driveshafts resized. Good opportunity to make a x-member with better ground clearance.


Speaking of my driveshaft. I need to replace the u-joints for the double cardan joint and the ones NAPA got me don't fit at all. They had two joints that where different sizes, but the exact same part numbers and neither fit. I guess I'll have to go elsewhere, but has anybody run into this problem with NAPA?

[YeaIKnow]

any idea how much the driveline work/crossmember work would be? i'm on a military base and don't really have any access to tools to fabricate my own crossmember, but i'm VERY interested in this swap

[Sunflash]

What? You are on a military base and they don't have an Auto skills center or craft shop? I guess I am spoiled on the Army bases I have worked on and the Airforce one I have visited but they all had Auto skill centers. Just ask around and you should be able to find it.

-Zack-

P.S. what branch of service?

[SUPERFLY]

is a toyota creseda inline 6 motor and a supra motor the same? cresedas are a heck of a lot cheaper

[YeaIKnow]

What? You are on a military base and they don't have an Auto skills center or craft shop? I guess I am spoiled on the Army bases I have worked on and the Airforce one I have visited but they all had Auto skill centers. Just ask around and you should be able to find it.

-Zack-

P.S. what branch of service?


i'm air force but i'm on an army training post... dli... apparently a couple years ago they sold our auto center to monterey peninsula college... dumb move if you ask me but so the world goes, it pretty much screwed us

[i_isntreal]

Any decent machine shop should be able to resize your driveshaft. Expect around 2-3 hours of labour.

The easiest way to make a x-member, is to is to use 4 x 1/2 inch flat stock. Get it bent so it is flat against the frame rails on either side and 3-4 inches lower in the middle. Instead of welding brackets to bolt the new one on, I just threw some old u-bolts off an old toy axle over the frame rails and bolted the flat stock on. Pretty budget, but it works.

If you have access to a welder and you don't want to make a new x-member. You might be able to take the old one and turn it around, so the wider spaced bolt holes line up, but the narrower set are facing rearward. You would then need to weld brackets to the frame for those holes to bolt them up.

[keyice]

I just picked up my 4th supra on friday, can't get it idle it will start and run just not idle. I have swaped on in my 82 truck, still have another 84 beside the broken one to swap. This one is in good shape so I am going to daily driver it once I get it finished. 5mge's all of them
So far I have check the tcv, works on the bench has power, tps have adjust and checked on the truck, adjusted idle speed, played with the mass air flow, tried a good computer out of my truck. Still won't hold at idle. :help:

[i_isntreal]

Is it surging? Or will it just not stay running?

[keyice]

won't stay running surging to me would suggest valve train or fuel delivery problems, I don't think it is either, I think it is more of a management system problem or vacuumm but assumtions can be blinders, I can set a 22r with my eyes close fuel injection is still pretty new to me, wiring and electrical, and fab are my strong suits because I have a done a lot of it diagnosic on the other hand only happens when you have a problem which in lies the problem advice would be greatly appreciated, also what does the adjustment on the maf sensor do exactly

[YeaIKnow]

i've noticed a lot of references to this swap compared with the 22re... wondering how much more difficult it would be to run on a carbureted engine (as far as wiring goes) b/c i am very into this swap, but wanna know what i'm getting into

[keyice]

can you use an automaic tranny computer to do a swap into a manual truck???

[YeaIKnow]

can you use an automaic tranny computer to do a swap into a manual truck???
i'm wondering the same thing...
*bump*

[keyice]

Well I got my supra fixed, leak in the intake surge camber, I hate trying to find problems like that.

[JOKER]

is a toyota creseda inline 6 motor and a supra motor the same? cresedas are a heck of a lot cheaper

From what I have read the motors are the same.

I am fixing to get one to put in my street runner, I plan on losing the 4x4 and going 2x4 with automatic. I may look for a supra turbo though cause it would have the potential for more HP.

[keyice]

You know I have a manual supra at the house and the auto I getting ready to junk I will pull the computer and try it just to see what happens.

[mwmx54]

alright, ive got the supra motor, no harness, ive also got a solid axle 94 5 speed 3.0 liter v6 xcab, can anyone tell me everything else i would need? bell housing? and where i should get these parts, (junkyard, ebay, etc...)?

[keyice]

you need a differen't tranny, supra use w series you can't use the r series with the trannies. If your lucky the bell house 3.0 will match the 7m-g housing never tried it, need a computer, harness, new exhaust, motor mounts will have to be change need supra cluth and so

[YellowJacket]

you need a differen't tranny, supra use w series you can't use the r series with the trannies. If your lucky the bell house 3.0 will match the 7m-g housing never tried it, need a computer, harness, new exhaust, motor mounts will have to be change need supra cluth and so
If enough of us bug SuperRunner, he will eventually get around to finishing a custom bellhousing that will alow the use of the R series trannies, or any other tranny you would want. I think he is first going to focus on making one for the R151F seeing that that is the tranny that most may and should want to run. I was helping him make the first one, but then he called me up and told be he dropped the mold on the ground! :spanka:

[FLArunner86]

if i have an ifs and pull the front diff would i have to mod the oil pan still?

[YellowJacket]

if i have an ifs and pull the front diff would i have to mod the oil pan still?
I wouldn't think so.

[Rob_O]

can you use an automaic tranny computer to do a swap into a manual truck???
Yes

[85yodaflatbed]

it's in and i have over 2000 on and off miles on it now very smooth power beats the hell out of a 22r, re, ret,3.slow very happy

[YellowJacket]

Very Nice!

Keepin' it TOYOTA!

[SAMI]

the 7mge that was in Greg's truck at the very first of this thread has one hell of a curse... er, i mean.. history.. ;) it's found it's way into my buddy's 4runner, and should be operational soon.

Very impressive swap

-Jason