trail gear 5" springs

[Cr_Racer]

i have a 85 straight axle 4runner and i bought a set of brand new 5" trail gear springs for the front and put em on a while ago and they are so long that the shackle sits on the frame so i made new shackles and extened the front 2 more inches and now they are all but maybe a 1/4 to a 1/2 inch from touching the frame. i was wondering has n e one else experienced this problem with the springs being long. Thanks Dave

[Cr_Racer]

it seems odd to me that no one experienced this before.

[Oatmeal]

http://www.budbuilt.com/new/shackles.html ------------Hans

[Cr_Racer]

thank you hans

[subliminaltrips]

you do realize those springs are longer than stock right? they require you to move your front spring hanger forward. trail gear sells the drop hanger for this.

with those shackles your tires will be beating the shit out of your firewall and vice versa because the center pin is not moved forward as its designed to be.

[Oatmeal]

you do realize those springs are longer than stock right? they require you to move your front spring hanger forward. trail gear sells the drop hanger for this.

with those shackles your tires will be beating the shit out of your firewall and vice versa because the center pin is not moved forward as its designed to be.From Trail Gear's website:
Front Springs
(Our front springs feature a full military wrap on the front and the 1/4 wrap on the rear. Spring rate is 220 lbs per inch. Leaf pack is 6 leaves. Springs are 47" long as measured along the top leaf. Pin to center of front mount is 22" and pin to center of the shackle mount is 25").................These are pretty much the same dimensions as a stock rear spring. I run a hybrid rear pack on the front of my '85 in the stock mounts and it moved my axle forward 2" (right where I wanted it to be) Sounds more like he dosen't have enough arch. Do you have alot of weight up front....ie. engine swap, heavy winch/bumper?-------------Hans

[Cr_Racer]

all i got is the engine (obviously) and yea a bumper. with about 3 inch tubing. thats all though

[subliminaltrips]

im telling you, he needs a drop hanger about 3/4 to 1'' forward . id put money on it. hes going to damage those springs. the stock rears you have dont have as much arch as his, and therefore dont need as much shackle travel, the boomerang shackle will be plenty in your case. in his case the springs are arched a hell of alot more than a stock rear spring pack, even with add a leafs. the more arch in a spring the more the shackle will need to travel towards the rear towards the frame and body mount. for trail gear's 5'' springs and a 5.5'' shackle you want the shackle angle to be roughly 10 degrees towards the rear of the truck when you first drop the jack stands after installing them. once the spring settles and breaks in , it should be no more than 20 degrees back when sitting level. any more than that and you will hit the body mount. i used a drop hanger mounted 1" fwd of stock and my axle is exactly 2'' fwd of stock, the center pin on tg's springs are 1'' fwd from a stock spring.

ask me how i know.....:wink:

[Cr_Racer]

so what your saying is i need to buy the front spring hanger? right? and if i did buy that then that will bring my axle about 3/4 to an inch forward making it no longer close to my body mount? Correct? thanks dave.

[Cr_Racer]

o and another thing. i went to trail gear because i havent heard n e thing bad about their product and they were cheap. well in order to put 5" front trail-gear springs on correctly i need to also buy a 75 dollar Hanger then it kinda defeats the purpose. its not a 300 dollar spring but it is a 375 dollar spring plus shipping. why do they make em 47" to long. is it cuz it fits more models that way or what???

[Oatmeal]

im telling you, he needs a drop hanger about 3/4 to 1'' forward . id put money on it. hes going to damage those springs. the stock rears you have dont have as much arch as his, and therefore dont need as much shackle travel, the boomerang shackle will be plenty in your case. in his case the springs are arched a hell of alot more than a stock rear spring pack, even with add a leafs. the more arch in a spring the more the shackle will need to travel towards the rear towards the frame and body mount. for trail gear's 5'' springs and a 5.5'' shackle you want the shackle angle to be roughly 10 degrees towards the rear of the truck when you first drop the jack stands after installing them. once the spring settles and breaks in , it should be no more than 20 degrees back when sitting level. any more than that and you will hit the body mount. i used a drop hanger mounted 1" fwd of stock and my axle is exactly 2'' fwd of stock, the center pin on tg's springs are 1'' fwd from a stock spring.

ask me how i know.....:wink:First of all, you don't know squat about my spring pack......it's not a "stock" rear pack and it has plenty of arch. The Trail Gear springs and a "stock" rear pack are the same length @ 47" (eye to eye) where the center pin sits only determines where the axle will end up. Flatened (compressed), the Trail Gear spring and the "stock" rear spring will still be the same length so, if his springs are that close to the frame sitting static, either there's no arch or the shackle's too short. BTW I don't use the "boomerang" (Budbuilt calls them "Banana") shackles. My shackles are 3" over stock and allow plenty of swing. They come real close to hitting the body mount (they might just touch) at full stuff but, I haven't hurt my springs in 4 yrs of hard wheeling (we have big rocks here in CA.) besides, you need to check travel and clearances and set your bump stops accordingly. The drop hangers that Trail Gear, All Pro and Marlin sell give you the option of mounting the springs forward an inch or in their stock orientation (by turning the hanger around). Dropping the front mounting point might afford you a more favorable pinion angle though. I, on the other hand chose not to use one, I didn't want to give up any approach angle. Also, by mounting my springs to the stock hangers, I achieved a more favorable (for my taste anyway) shackle angle and will allow more down travel. Right now I have only 10" travel RS9000s, they're my travel limiters until I can get a longer front slip yoke, otherwise there's enough travel to easily pull the driveshaft apart -----------Hans

[Oatmeal]

You didn't just "bolt" those onto a stock 4Runner did you? I'm sure you have crossover steering, right? Moving the springs and thus, the axle forward would render your stock "push pull" steering unusable-------Hans

[subliminaltrips]

First of all, you don't know squat about my spring pack......it's not a "stock" rear pack and it has plenty of arch. The Trail Gear springs and a "stock" rear pack are the same length @ 47" (eye to eye) where the center pin sits only determines where the axle will end up. Flatened (compressed), the Trail Gear spring and the "stock" rear spring will still be the same length so, if his springs are that close to the frame sitting static, either there's no arch or the shackle's too short. BTW I don't use the "boomerang" (Budbuilt calls them "Banana") shackles. My shackles are 3" over stock and allow plenty of swing. They come real close to hitting the body mount (they might just touch) at full stuff but, I haven't hurt my springs in 4 yrs of hard wheeling (we have big rocks here in CA.) besides, you need to check travel and clearances and set your bump stops accordingly. The drop hangers that Trail Gear, All Pro and Marlin sell give you the option of mounting the springs forward an inch or in their stock orientation (by turning the hanger around). Dropping the front mounting point might afford you a more favorable pinion angle though. I, on the other hand chose ot to use one, I didn't want to give up any approach angle. Also, by mounting my springs to the stock hangers, I achieved a more favorable (for my taste anyway) shackle angle and will allow more down travel. Right now I have only 10" travel RS9000s, they're my travel limiters until I can get a longer front slip yoke, otherwise there's enough travel to easily pull the driveshaft apart -----------Hans

but when a spring is arched the more its arched the more it will push out the eye to eye measurement to become a greater distance. the greater the arch the greater the gap will be when compressed. and i never claimed to know squat about your springs, but i know for a fact any stock spring does not have the same arch as the 5'' tg springs. now im not sure about your setup since its a "hybrid" .

cr racer,
i would call trail gear and talk to john robertson, he helped me when i had issues with my springs . john explained alot of things about tg's lifted springs and springs in general. i personally would run a drop hanger but you could also try the boomerang shackle but the spring hanger would be the best way and it improves the pinion angle as oameal said. and x2 on the x over steering ,i hope you have it....

[Oatmeal]

but when a spring is arched the more its arched the more it will push out the eye to eye measurement to become a greater distance. the greater the arch the greater the gap will be when compressed. and i never claimed to know squat about your springs, but i know for a fact any stock spring does not have the same arch as the 5'' tg springs. now im not sure about your setup since its a "hybrid" .

cr racer,
i would call trail gear and talk to john robertson, he helped me when i had issues with my springs . john explained alot of things about tg's lifted springs and springs in general. i personally would run a drop hanger but you could also try the boomerang shackle but the spring hanger would be the best way and it improves the pinion angle as oameal said. and x2 on the x over steering ,i hope you have it....
Sorry, I didn't mean for this to turn into a pissing match but, 47" is measured along the length of the spring(s) not eye to eye with a staight edge so, the springs (TG and mine) are the same length.....arched or compressed. My buddy runs Marlin's 5" springs, which are the same dimensions as TG's (but higher quality, IMO) and my hybrid pack has about the same arch as his. He mounted his with a drop hanger (his is a SAS) and forward an inch (per directions) to make more room for his tires at full stuff but, his shackle angle is too upright for my taste. So, CR Racer are your springs hitting the frame or your shackles hitting the body mounts? The banana shackles will do nothing if they're sitting on the frame but, they will help you clear the body mounts-----------Hans

[subliminaltrips]

i always thought it was measured in linear guess i figured wrong on that. either way the more the arch the more the shackle will travel rearward under compression and the less it will go fwd under droop. i run my shackles at about 20 degrees to the rear with a 5.5" shackle and have not had any issues other than just barely hitting the body mount with the tire stuffed before i clearenced the mount. i considered a boomerang shackle myself.

with a 5 inch spring the shackle will hit the frame once they settle if left on the stock hanger location.the springs will wear in faster and wear out faster too. the farther back the shackle travels beyond 45degrees the harder that spring will have to work to continue to flex thus causing them to wear prematurely .

[Cr_Racer]

to answer your question Hans. yes i did jus bolt them to a stock 4runner. then later put on the 5 1/2 inch shackles. call me stupid or just not thinking it through but when i bought these front springs i figured thats all i need to buy. i had a previous set of marlin crawlers up front and the driver side spring had snapped so i went and bought the two springs from trail gear. but the axle still looks in good position flexed or not and the steering seems good. before when the front shackles wear touching the frame yea it did get a wabble sometimes when stopping but not n e more.

[Oatmeal]

Okay, I was looking over some spring specs and by mounting those springs onto your stock truck it only moved the axle forward a 1/2" so, that's why your stock steering still worked. So, your saying, it's your shackles that are hitting the body mounts and not your springs hitting the bottom of the frame? If that's the case, the "Banana" shackles should solve your problem. My hybrid pack moves my axle forward 2" (center pin is around 20" from front eye not 22".....I apologize to Subliminal trips) but, having that much travel (those springs will flex) will indeed stuff your tires into the back of your wheelwells. You WOULD be better off running a drop hanger, moving the axle forward and running x-over steering (if and when money allows) Don't overlook your bumpstops though, set them to limit your travel and to keep from inverting your springs (not good for them)--------Hans