have to go with a small block!

[Jason_n_CO.]

ive been racking my brain around here since my first post and have decided to go woth a small block..i have the option of ford or chevy. but the thing im not sure about is northwest says in everything that the ford kit they offer is for 302..is the 302 and 351 the same size block and different size cylinders? thats the only ford engine i have sitting here to use. or i have a 350 to use as well. but like the idea of narrower and dist. in front on the ford. anyone here used the bell housing adapter with the W56 transmission and how did it work for you? i just want to have the power when pulling these 7% grades around here on the hiway!im going with a 4 inch susp. and 3 inch body and 35s. im open to critisizm and im not opposed to keeping the 22re that is sitting in the back of the truck if you can tell me a way to pull these steep a$$ hills on 35s with the 4 cylinder! THANKS JASON

[azredliner]

That's simple. 5.29 gears

[bodo]

Dude before I start bashing v8/v6 conversions and telling you how you're going to f**k your truck up let me ask a question. Do you plan on using this truck for anything usefull or is this a competition only vehicle?

[Jason-in -CO.]

but like i said the mountains here are steep as hell on the highway that runs through lake city (7% grade 9% in places). its frustrating as anything ttrying to go somewhere at a reasonable speed and cant cause you have no power to pull those grades. its not going to upset me so bash away im open to crtitsizm! Jason

[azredliner]

but like i said the mountains here are steep as hell on the highway that runs through lake city (7% grade 9% in places). its frustrating as anything ttrying to go somewhere at a reasonable speed and cant cause you have no power to pull those grades. its not going to upset me so bash away im open to crtitsizm! Jason

But like I said, 5.29 gears!

[bodo]

Ok I hate v8/v6 conversions because they look like hack jobs, overheat, and cost tons of money. Oh yeah if you try to sell your truck knock about $3000 off the normal price because now it's a hotrod. Now tell us about your truck, tire size, mileage, altitude, do you tow anything, etc. etc. Toyotas are great trucks, but they aren't dragsters or 3500HD duramax diesels.

[Jason-in -CO.]

Altitude is 8760 feet all i tow are snowmobiles in the winter. i run about 10 miles a day im planning on running 35s. truck is an 84 reg cab. had a 22re in it till #3 piston came apart in the cylinder and scared the cylinder wall and beat up the head. i tore it down about a year ago to rebuild things happened and it never got done. had it stored and covered,i went up there the cover is gone and evrything is rusted to beat hell. not sure i can rememeber where everything went (all the vacuum and plugs ). cooling a small block shouldnt be a problem here ambient temp. 8months of the year is 30 degrees the other 3 months it is 75 degrees zero humididty.

[toymanator]

I just recently bought a v8 swapped 4runner with the 302 in it. You can check it out at...
http://www.wildyoats.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=12307&highlight=ford+302
Although I don't have the toyota drivetrain, I am running a C4 Tranny and a Dana 20 transfercase. I bought this rig just for rock climbing but the city I live in is all on a steep mountain and I live near the top. I must say with my 4inch lift and 3" body the 35's fit perfect but it is a little high. My friends with 4runners both have 35's and the 22re and seem to do fine. I bought the truck to be different and different it is. Cooling is an issue with that big of tire though. My suggestion with you only driving 10 miles and it being a daily driver like everyone has said drop in a pair of 5.29's that will bring the gearing back near stock, gas mileage is great, and a heck of a lot cheaper than swapping the 302 in. If you have any questions i'll do what I can to answer them just let me know sorry for the randomness of the post.

[azredliner]

Altitude is 8760 feet all i tow are snowmobiles in the winter. i run about 10 miles a day im planning on running 35s. truck is an 84 reg cab. had a 22re in it till #3 piston came apart in the cylinder and scared the cylinder wall and beat up the head. i tore it down about a year ago to rebuild things happened and it never got done. had it stored and covered,i went up there the cover is gone and evrything is rusted to beat hell. not sure i can rememeber where everything went (all the vacuum and plugs ). cooling a small block shouldnt be a problem here ambient temp. 8months of the year is 30 degrees the other 3 months it is 75 degrees zero humididty.

Don't waste your money rebuilding the old block. Get a "laser block", punch it .020, comp cam, pro topline head... the bitch will haul!

I did it with this one:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a383/azredliner/Toyota%20Tech/Completed22R2.jpg

Here it is in my '86.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a383/azredliner/Toyota%20Tech/d622b13f.jpg

[ToyRunner1]

For those of you who can't stand to modify your Toyotas lets hear what axles you have, what suspensions you have etc. If you plan the cooling like you plan the swap you won't have any problems. My Runner cools just fine with a HD V6 radiator and I generate quite a bit of heat with the non-intercooled turbo. I also run a separate cooler for the tranny. I have 4" suspension with a 3" BL and run 35s with no problem.

As for the comment about losing $3000 because of a motor swap I'd like to know what you're smoking :rolleyes: The only time I've seen a Toy go for less because of a nicely done swap was because the guy wanted a completely stock one. Even the lifted one got ignored.

[azredliner]

The only reason someone would sacrifice the economy and reliability of a 22R, would be to show off. Horse power is the only gain for putting a V8 in a 3000 pound truck. You are adding more weight, less milage, less dependability and less longevity to a Toyota if you put a V8 in it. A 4.3 V6 is a good way to go, but not a V8.

Any true wheeler knows that it's not so much horse power as it is gearing. I saw in Africa a tribesman driving an old Willy's powered by a 17 hp air cooled generator motor. He was running it any where he wanted, in 4-low.

The whole point of owning a Toyota is that the original drivetrain is nearly bullit proof, great mileage and dependability. When you remove any part of the Toyota drivetrain, you have re-engineered perfection and made it less than what you started with.

[toymanator]

How many buggies, out there decide to run a 22r? You see lots running corvette, chevy, and ford engines with a lot more power and they weigh less than the little toyota trucks. In my opinion it is all in application. If its strictly for rock crawling go with the V8 but if you drive it everyday the 302 is a very reliable engine or stick with toyota and go to the 3.4L. But all in all don't change what isn't broken, drop in a set of 5.29's until your engine goes then maybe think about the swap.

[azredliner]

How many buggies, out there decide to run a 22r? You see lots running corvette, chevy, and ford engines with a lot more power and they weigh less than the little toyota trucks. In my opinion it is all in application. If its strictly for rock crawling go with the V8 but if you drive it everyday the 302 is a very reliable engine or stick with toyota and go to the 3.4L. But all in all don't change what isn't broken, drop in a set of 5.29's until your engine goes then maybe think about the swap.

Rock buggies are built and used for competition. I don't know where you are or how you wheel, but when where I wheel, it's hot and we can spend a whole day just crawling at about 1 - 5 miles an hour. The rock buggies are only used in short intervals, then they are cooled. I've had Chevy's and they just can't deal with low speed travel for long periods of time, without overheating.

But really none of that is the point in this case. He hasn't said he was going to do any wheeling. He just wants to drive it up a hill, on the pavement. My trucks spend about 80% of their time off pavement.

PAVEMENT SUCKS!

So for short runs and urban wheeling, a V8 is fine. Just don't cry when you overheat or run out of gas.

[ovrrdrive]

The only reason someone would sacrifice the economy and reliability of a 22R, would be to show off. Horse power is the only gain for putting a V8 in a 3000 pound truck.

Honestly, this comment made me hit the floor laughing...

Ignoring the blatant thread crap and hijack you guys just gave this guy, some of your comments are just plain stupid.

Saying that horsepower is the only gain is like saying Martha Stewart doesn't know shit about the stock market.

Of course he wants more power and obviously doesn't care about the extra weight (which is negligible in my opinion. Add a rollbar and a winch and you have the same weight with 116 horsepower vs. the 220-290 he'll have) or lower fuel milage (at 10 miles a day it won't break him) and besides, its his truck and he was just asking for advice.


The 22re is a crappy motor that's underpowered and troublesome in my opinion. As if you couldn't tell, I'm also in the final planning stages of a V8 swap too. I'm tired of being underpowered all the time with ridiculously replacement costs. After driving our V8 2003 4runner I have decided this 4 banger needs to go.

If it's properly planned and executed, it is definitely do-able. Check with Downy too. They have lot's of adapters, mounts, and radiators but they're kind of pricey.

From what I've heard the Ford 302 is the easier swap due to the reasons you stated. However I have seen a bunch of SBC's too and all they say they have to do is bang a dent in the firewall and get a clearance header.

I'm leaning towards a Chevy because I like the Th350 transmission better than the W56 or a similar Ford variety, and I also like the idea of brand new Chevy crate motors that sell in longblock forms for under $1600 with 290hp/320 lbs. Once you get the initial swap done you can get a brand new block with all new internals including brand new heads for less than what I paid for my last junk yard 22re motor, and $500 less than my last rebuilt 22re engine.

I know that my situation is probably different than you guys that crawl. Down here in Florida we have mud and sugar sand, both of which require horsepower, lockers, and big tires. Those reasons make me want a V8 in my truck.

Not to mention I drive it about 16 miles total each day during the week to work. V8's and city driving are a match made in heaven.

To the OP, check these links:

http://advanceadapters.dirxion.com/default.asp?screen=1024&os=win
http://www.northwestoffroad.com/parts/engineswap.html
http://www.downeyoff-road.com/EngineComponents/index.htm


http://www.crateenginedepot.com/1971---1985-Passenger-Cars-and-Lt-Dty-Trks-350-LM1-New-Goodwrench-Engine-10067353--P62C0.aspx

My ideal swap is a 350 SBC mated to a TH350 into an adapter to the stock yota transfer case. With this swap you keep the stock transfer case location which keeps the stock driveshafts. The speed sensor is in the transfer case so it will still work. I'm also planning a 4" suspension to go with my 3" BL already on the truck and, you guessed it, 35x12.5 or even 14.5 tires. It will take a good radiator from a place like I listed above and a good electric fan to cool it, but for $400 more you can be in business.

I would consider skimping in a lot of places, but don't skimp on the rad.

Or I'm going to buy a Tundra with the V8 already in it, and sell my truck to pay for a suspension lift and 35's on it... I'm hoping to keep a truck that's paid for though. We'll see.


Btw, there are a few that have done the swap on Yotatech, and a bunch that have done it on Pirate 4x4... You may want to find a forum that's more open minded...

[azredliner]

The 22re is a crappy motor that's underpowered and troublesome in my opinion. As if you couldn't tell, I'm also in the final planning stages of a V8 swap too. I'm tired of being underpowered all the time with ridiculously replacement costs. After driving our V8 2003 4runner I have decided this 4 banger needs to go.



If you would remove your head from your anal cavity, you would be able to see that Wild Yoats is a TOYOTA FORUM. We are open minded to TOYOTAS.

Pirate4X4 is for all types of 4X4's.

I have never see a stock Chevy, Dodge or Ford gas engine take the abuse of a 22R and run strong for 300,000 miles. Stock Chevy's drop dead after 5500 rpms. So you don't know what you are talking about. I've been rebuilding Chevys for 30 years. I've raced them, restored them. I've probably forgotten more about Chevys than you will ever know.

So you just keep on laughing. I'll be laughing too, when those gas hogs are parked because you can't afford 8 miles to the gallon. My Toyota will still be rolling right past your ass. :lol:

[toy power]

I notice in the previous posts you guys always talk about swapping in a small chevy with a turbo 350 or a ford with a c4. AZRedliner makes a valid point about gears; low gears work. So, if I were to make a swap into a toy, I would take advantage of this and use an overdrive trans. A 700r4 or AOD with a rear end gear to match the overdrive would not improve fuel economy with the extra gear and lockup converter, and at lower speeds give you the torque you want from the low rear end. Just my thoughts; and despite my 22r allegiance, a badass 351 would be a lot of fun.

[ovrrdrive]

The 700r is definitely a better choice than the TH350 because of the lower 1st gear and the 4th gear OD. The only drawback to it is that I've heard it is longer than the TH350 and you have to get your driveshafts modified to make it work.

There's also the 4th gear electronic lockup, but that is pretty easily modified to make work.

Honestly, the thought of the truck I've loved for 12 years now with a big honking V8 under the hood gives me a big woodie. :redspotda

[ovrrdrive]

If you would remove your head from your anal cavity, you would be able to see that Wild Yoats is a TOYOTA FORUM. We are open minded to TOYOTAS.

Pirate4X4 is for all types of 4X4's.

I have never see a stock Chevy, Dodge or Ford gas engine take the abuse of a 22R and run strong for 300,000 miles. Stock Chevy's drop dead after 5500 rpms. So you don't know what you are talking about. I've been rebuilding Chevys for 30 years. I've raced them, restored them. I've probably forgotten more about Chevys than you will ever know.

So you just keep on laughing. I'll be laughing too, when those gas hogs are parked because you can't afford 8 miles to the gallon. My Toyota will still be rolling right past your ass. :lol:

Wow that was pretty childish. Hope you feel better. :rolleyes:

As for knowledge on the V8's, it sounds like you do have more experience with them than I do. Tell me how much you can get another engine for from Joe Bob down the street that has 10 of them laying around on his backyard and then how much could you rebuild it for?

Then, assuming you want to hop it up there is the cheap price and availability of parts... Dress up and performance. Hell, I have seen chrome valve covers for a SBC at jiffy stores around here.

Everything for the 22re costs double, and there's half as much to them.

As I said in my reply PM to you where you tried to chew me out further, I bought a '94 4x4 truck and a '95 4x4 truck both new with the 22RE in them. I am still driving the '95 as my DD and its on its third engine now. Not to mention that this engine was a rebuilt motor I bought and at exactly 12k on it the drivers side timing rail shattered and went through the bottom gear which broke the timing cover, jumped time, and bent all 4 intake valves.

I also had a '99 4runner with the 3.4l V6, and currently have an '03 4runner with the 4.7 V8.

I think I'm pretty qualified to make public assertions about Toyota's on a forum like this.

I love my Toyota truck, but the 22RE is a shit motor. It's better than the 3.0, but it isn't as bulletproof as people make it out to be. I do more maintenance to my trucks than most people that work in the shop at the dealers do, and I've still had 3 catastrophic failures.

People come to forums like this for interesting reading or for help. This guy came here for help and you decided to slam him for his opinion. It really doesn't matter what you think of what he wants to do.

If you don't like it, I suggest staying out of the thread.

[azredliner]

A V8 Toyota is nice in a mudbog, sand dunes or sand drag, but not when you are running some washes with huge bolders, 20 miles at a time.

[azredliner]

Wow that was pretty childish...

I'm sorry, what was this thread about?

[azredliner]

ive been racking my brain around here since my first post and have decided to go woth a small block..i have the option of ford or chevy. but the thing im not sure about is northwest says in everything that the ford kit they offer is for 302..is the 302 and 351 the same size block and different size cylinders? thats the only ford engine i have sitting here to use. or i have a 350 to use as well. but like the idea of narrower and dist. in front on the ford. anyone here used the bell housing adapter with the W56 transmission and how did it work for you? i just want to have the power when pulling these 7% grades around here on the hiway!im going with a 4 inch susp. and 3 inch body and 35s. im open to critisizm and im not opposed to keeping the 22re that is sitting in the back of the truck if you can tell me a way to pull these steep a$$ hills on 35s with the 4 cylinder! THANKS JASON

Oh yeah!

[ToyRunner1]

The 700r is definitely a better choice than the TH350 because of the lower 1st gear and the 4th gear OD. The only drawback to it is that I've heard it is longer than the TH350 and you have to get your driveshafts modified to make it work.

There's also the 4th gear electronic lockup, but that is pretty easily modified to make work.Since I run a V6 I was able to move the engine forward and keep the transfer case in the stock location. I also had the lockup removed when it was rebuilt. It now cools in any gear and works beautifully.

[bodo]

Sorry i've to busy to reply. In my area of the country (Pensacola, Fl) you can buy converted pickups and runners for $1500-$2000 allday long, but can't buy the same truck with the stock motor for less then $3500. We don't have rocks here but we do have mud and alot of guys think that if this thing is good with a 4cyl in it imagine what it would do with a V8. Then they spend all this money and time on a conversion and realize they are no better off then they were before. Then summer comes with blistering heat, $3.05 gas prices, and traffic jams from all the tourist. While they sit in a jam with the heater on to keep it from overheating they're thinking where is the nearest hardware store that sells FOR SALE signs. Hey if you've got a truck that is your weekend toy hell put a V8 in it and raise hell but if you want a truck that you can trust do a gear swap and play with the motor (Air filter, cam, and headers) and enjoy it. If it's still not enough maybe your asking the truck to do something it was not designed to do and you need to sell it to someone who can use it and buy something else that suits your needs

[toymanator]

This has turned into quite the argument... Another thought, my friend with a 4cyl was talking with me last night and gave his reasoning for why the toyotas are so underpowered. Simply because they don't break, you swap a v8 in their and things will break whereas the 4cyl doesn't have enough power to break anything and if you get in a situation that is iffy it will stall before it will break anything.

[azredliner]

Something I learned just recently.

When someone asks for advice, don't give it. Because if you do, someone else will take it personal. :lol:

If you don't like what I just said...


Kiss my "rude" http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a383/azredliner/Smileys/10_6_8_1_.gif

[22REkid]

Not to mention that this engine was a rebuilt motor I bought and at exactly 12k on it the drivers side timing rail shattered and went through the bottom gear which broke the timing cover, jumped time, and ***bent all 4 intake valves.***

I call bullshit since that is impossible. :thumbdown

[keyice]

I you want to go through the hassle of putting a different motor in, and you really like toyota look at a 7mge or 7mgte or even a 5mge. I personelly don't care for chevy v8 or v6s but they are cheap on parts. is the 22re underpower yes, fuel effiecient I would say marginal, much better than a v8. the 302 small block and the 351 winsor are interchangable the 351 clevland is not. I your not sure about which you have the clevland has massive heads.

Cooling problems, aluminum radators work better, 4 cores are a shoehorn with a v8, or an inline 6 3 cores will work for a 6 unless you like in the heat and humidy like the floridia guy.

Breakage, okay v8 big power, toyota tranny won't hold it, even a stock one will kill it. The never end list of un breakables 727 torque flight, 2 speed power glide, np435, nv4500, turbo 400, c6, sm 420, sm 465. 350 hydro garbage unless you build it, 700r4 early models need a shift kit, the solenoid controlled one I wouldn't sell to anyone.

Tcases toyotas are tough, but not 100% bulletproof, v8 go to the 23 spline, np205, dana 20, dana 300, or just about any borg warner case, 203s and 208, 231np I don't care for chains at all.

If your really want to solve your deleima of a tow rig, look in to a reasonable v6 or inline 6, gears in the diffs and be done with it, v8s aren't always the answer.

[bodo]

My problem is people buying a Toyota and then swapping out the motor, transmission, transfercase, and front/rearends and then saying I've got the baddest Toyota in town. What you have is a Chevy, Ford, or Dodge bolted to a Toyota frame and cab. You love your truck when it's good and you hate it when it's bad. A TOYOTA TRUCK IS NEVER BAD. And if anyone is swapping a Ford Cleveland motor into their yota stop, I need the heads for my 351M in the Bronco.

[azredliner]

I your not sure about which you have the clevland has massive heads.

Another way to differentiate a Winsor from a Clevland is the location of the thermostat housing. If it comes from the intake, it's a Winsor. If it comes from the block, it's a Clevland. (It could be the other way, I don't remember.)

A 351/400 or better known as 351M is a Clevland block with 400 heads. The "M" stands for "MODIFIED". I've had some Fords too. Among them, I had a 1964 Ranchero Falcon with a Hypo 289 and I restored a 1969 Cougar Eliminator with a 429CJ.

[azredliner]

My problem is people buying a Toyota and then swapping out the motor, transmission, transfercase, and front/rearends and then saying I've got the baddest Toyota in town. What you have is a Chevy, Ford, or Dodge bolted to a Toyota frame and cab. You love your truck when it's good and you hate it when it's bad. A TOYOTA TRUCK IS NEVER BAD. And if anyone is swapping a Ford Cleveland motor into their yota stop, I need the heads for my 351M in the Bronco.

There's a guy down the road from me that has a 1972 Torino Sport with a Clevland in it. It's just sitting there, rotting. The car was mine and I traded it to him for a 1972 shortbed Chevy. They put new heads on it and parked it.

[bodo]

I know I'm hijacking but get those heads for, me send me a PM.

[ovrrdrive]

I call bullshit since that is impossible. :thumbdown

I got your pm as well and I hate to tell you this and burst your bubble, but after it's rebuilt I can guarantee you that the 22RE is an interference motor. You're not only wrong but you're very wrong.

Maybe you should stick to things you know about when you give advice.


http://www.ovrrdrive.made2own.com/uploader/files/1/head_bent_valves.jpg
http://www.ovrrdrive.made2own.com/uploader/files/1/bent_valve2.jpg
http://www.ovrrdrive.made2own.com/uploader/files/1/bent_valve3.jpg

[ovrrdrive]

Something I learned just recently.

When someone asks for advice, don't give it. Because if you do, someone else will take it personal. :lol:

If you don't like what I just said...


Kiss my "rude" http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a383/azredliner/Smileys/10_6_8_1_.gif


Just a thought here...

When someone asks for advice you could just give them advice instead of telling them they're stupid and what they're trying to do is wrong.

Like I said, just a thought.

And I don't kiss no man's ass... :spanka:

[bbagwell]

Go hang out on Pirate4X4 if you want to see rude. This place is about 50 million times more friendly.

[ovrrdrive]

Go hang out on Pirate4X4 if you want to see rude. This place is about 50 million times more friendly.


:lol:

I do and you're absolutely right.

That place is amazing sometimes. But if you want to learn about anything at all a quick search there will give you the answers.

[bodo]

:lol:

I do and you're absolutely right.

That place is amazing sometimes. But if you want to learn about anything at all a quick search there will give you the answers.


You can't search anymore if you don't have the cool red star, and most of those guys are full of themselves.

[22REkid]

I got your pm as well and I hate to tell you this and burst your bubble, but after it's rebuilt I can guarantee you that the 22RE is an interference motor. You're not only wrong but you're very wrong.

Maybe you should stick to things you know about when you give advice.


http://www.ovrrdrive.made2own.com/uploader/files/1/head_bent_valves.jpg
http://www.ovrrdrive.made2own.com/uploader/files/1/bent_valve2.jpg
http://www.ovrrdrive.made2own.com/uploader/files/1/bent_valve3.jpg

Take a look at the last pic of the piston. Do you see how the actual deck height of the piston is ABOVE the height of the block? That is no good. That is a high compression piston. A high compression piston will make it an interfierence engine. Stock 22RE pistons are dished in the middle. Looks like the wrong piston was used. In case you don't believe me I will post some pics of a STOCK piston when I get back to work. :spanka:

[22REkid]

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j127/22rekid/tool1.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j127/22rekid/22REPIST.jpg

:spanka: :lol: :spanka: :lol:

[ovrrdrive]

Ok... This is getting good now.

Just so the rest of you guys know what kind of person this 22REkid is, here is what he just sent me in a PM:



Learn how to diagnose the actual problem before you make yourself look even dumber. It is very apparent to me that you obviously don't know as much about the 22RE as you think you do. About the post count thing, I don't care how much you have or don't have. I used to have 20 posts too but you know what, I was still proving people wrong and giving steller advise. This Toyota thing is how I make a living. Educate yourself and maybe you can prove me wrong one day. I'm looking forward to it. Have a nice day!



Now take a look at the last picture of a bent intake valve I posted that he actually took the time to put in photoshop and label as an incorrect piston.

WTF?

Isn't it obvious that is a picture of an intake valve that I put a spotlight behind?

And to think he's looking forward to me proving him wrong.

Hell, I don't know where to start! :lol:






http://www.ovrrdrive.made2own.com/uploader/files/1/tool1.jpg
http://www.ovrrdrive.made2own.com/uploader/files/1/22REPIST.jpg

:spanka: :lol: :spanka: :lol:

[azredliner]

Just a thought here...

When someone asks for advice you could just give them advice instead of telling them they're stupid and what they're trying to do is wrong.

Like I said, just a thought.

And I don't kiss no man's ass... :spanka:

Did anyone here see me tell anyone they were "stupid"? NO. I didn't say anyone was "stupid". Maybe you are "stupid". NOW I said it. You aren't doing to well on this thread. You said 22REKid doesn't know about 22R's. You show a picture of a non Toyota piston. If you put that piston in your engine, who is "stupid"? That is NOT a Toyota piston. It ain't the old style or the Laser style. THEN you put words in my mouth. Take your trouble making ass somewhere else.

This guy PM'ed me and he's proud of his thread hi-jacking skills. I'm shining this dude on.

[ovrrdrive]

:dunno:

Do you guys really not know the difference between an intake valve and a piston?

:hitwithro

[ovrrdrive]

Did anyone here see me tell anyone they were "stupid"? NO. I didn't say anyone was "stupid". Maybe you are "stupid". NOW I said it. You aren't doing to well on this thread. You said 22REKid doesn't know about 22R's. You show a picture of a non Toyota piston. If you put that piston in your engine, who is "stupid"? That is NOT a Toyota piston. It ain't the old style or the Laser style. THEN you put words in my mouth. Take your trouble making ass somewhere else.

This guy PM'ed me and he's proud of his thread hi-jacking skills. I'm shining this dude on.


Btw, I'm gonna quote that so you can't delete it. :spanka:

[azredliner]

NO valve reliefs
http://www.ovrrdrive.made2own.com/uploader/files/1/tool1.jpg

Valve reliefs
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j127/22rekid/22REPIST.jpg

1987 22R:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a383/azredliner/Toyota%20Tech/198722RDisassembly.jpg

22R Piston:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a383/azredliner/Toyota%20Tech/8722R012.jpg

1984 22R:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a383/azredliner/Toyota%20Tech/188422RTimingChainReplace4.jpg

That isn't a 22R piston.

[azredliner]

22R:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a383/azredliner/Toyota%20Tech/8722R001.jpg

22R Engine that I built:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a383/azredliner/Toyota%20Tech/Completed22R2.jpg
I've been tearing into 22R's for some time now. That crap that you showed is NOT a piston from any Toyota "R" engine.

:lol: Now you really look stupid! :lol: Someone duped you into buying an engine that wasn't a Toyota! :lol:

[azredliner]

Btw, I'm gonna quote that so you can't delete it. :spanka:

O.K. my bad. :spanka: The picture made it look like a piston. You should stick to photography.

[subliminaltrips]

boy, i dont know where to start, first of all what a bunch of whiney little bitches... especially ovrrdrive. :spanka: and as for 22re kid or whatever, dude i feel sorry for your kids, your about as sorry as a one legged cat trying to bury turds on a frozen pond... and as for building a 22re, dude anybody who uses a fram oil filter and that cant tell the difference between a valve and a piston (that goes for you too azredliner) is a complete waste of human flesh. its tards like you who have made me realize what a stupid place this is.

to all of you who know the diffence between an **************************** and a hole in the ground

:grin:

i think someone should copy this one over to pirate and let the smoke turn into a nuclear holocost.

[22REkid]

Oh I see, it's a valve not a piston. Well in that case I figured it out. The head was milled too far. That head should have never been installed on the block. You can only mill a head so far (and it aint much). No wonder you hate 22REs, bad rebuilt engine. When a head in milled properly within specs. the pistons will not hit the valves. When you mill a head too far then interfierence will occur. That also explains why the chain skipped. Guides breaking will not cause the chain to become loose, that's what the tensioner is for, but if the head is milled too far than the chain will never be as tight as it needs to be and rattle and cause some damage. Don't blame the 22RE engine, blame the machine shop guy for reconditioning a head that should have been discarded.

[subliminaltrips]

dude you idiot, a 22re brand new from the factory will have a nice colision , valve to piston, when the timing chain is off by any more than 90 degrees. i gaurantee it and if your so confident then why to you go try it and wonder why you have no compression. i was building engines when you were still a nut stain in your mommies draws lil kid. and yes im full of myself if you dont like it ban me. i wish someone else would set this dude straight... im not normally a dick but this one made me irate when i saw such blasphemy and misinformation posted on the net, it makes this site look bad...

i bet you dont even know how to set the quench on an engine according to the new pistons and how much destroking they have. also you probabally dont how much .03mm off of a deck surface will throw off valve timing either????? :dunno:

[ovrrdrive]

i think someone should copy this one over to pirate and let the smoke turn into a nuclear holocost.


Why don't you do it you little ************?

And while you're at it, you can copy it to Yotatech too.

Oh wait, you can't do that because you got banned from there for being a dumbass isn't that right? :redspotda :rofl: :lol:

If you're gonna troll like that, I'll get int he truck and be at your house in 5 minutes to whip your ass boy. Don't forget I know where you live. :spanka:

Some backup you turned out to be... :D




What an amazing group of mechanics we have here...

They all tell me I'm a dumbass and call me names, and then can't tell the difference between a valve and a piston. And then, when they finally realize how stupid they have been, I don't even get an apology. That's just great.

Most of this forum seems pretty cool. But the asses here shine so brightly you can't even seem to be able to tell where they are coming from.

[22REkid]

And then, when they finally realize how stupid they have been, I don't even get an apology. That's just great.

Overrdrive,
You are right I apoligize. I was fooled by the picture. There is an explanition for the interfierence though. Bottom line, The 22re is not an interfierence engine, unless you f**k with the head, pistons, oversized valves, high lift cams ect. I still don't think you should have made a PM public because the last time I checked my PMs there was a smartass one from you too. No hard feelings man.

Subliminaltrips,
Nice try to bail out your buddy. You are a douchbag. Enough said.

[azredliner]

Why don't you do it you little ************?

And while you're at it, you can copy it to Yotatech too.

Oh wait, you can't do that because you got banned from there for being a dumbass isn't that right? :redspotda :rofl: :lol:

If you're gonna troll like that, I'll get int he truck and be at your house in 5 minutes to whip your ass boy. Don't forget I know where you live. :spanka:

Some backup you turned out to be... :D




What an amazing group of mechanics we have here...

They all tell me I'm a dumbass and call me names, and then can't tell the difference between a valve and a piston. And then, when they finally realize how stupid they have been, I don't even get an apology. That's just great.

Most of this forum seems pretty cool. But the asses here shine so brightly you can't even seem to be able to tell where they are coming from.

Hey I admitted I was wrong. As far as an appology goes, you started your crap first. I was joking and you were sidebusting. Now you are threatening people and I don't think that's going to fly around here.

[subliminaltrips]

i dont really like to fly anyways, and if you really think that the 22re isnt an interfearence engine, brand new from toyota, go tell a toyota mechanic that and watch him laugh. i am not trying to be a cock, but 22re kid you are wrong and you will never be right about the 22re or even the 22r being non interfearence. i wish engnbldr was here he would set you straight, id say a guy thats been building engines for 50 years knows a little more than we do... but if you really want to find out, take a stock head and bolt it to a brand new block with the pistons at tdc and turn the cam untill it binds , that would be a valve touching a piston. if the engine is 90 degrees out of time on the camshaft you will bend every single intake valve if its retarded your timing or the exhaust if it advanced with 2 revolutions of the crank which is one complete revolution of the camshaft. the valve reliefs in the pistons are so the valve can fully open when the engine is timed properly. if that piston is at tdc when the valve is fully open, which is at 90 degrees advance or retard. valves arent supposed to open fully at tdc it susually about 5 to 10 degrees before tdc depending on if your head is milled or the block is decked. your block and head would need more than 1 inch of machine work to cause a 90 degree retard of the timing, period.....

[bodo]

i dont really like to fly anyways, and if you really think that the 22re isnt an interfearence engine, brand new from toyota, go tell a toyota mechanic that and watch him laugh. i am not trying to be a cock, but 22re kid you are wrong and you will never be right about the 22re or even the 22r being non interfearence. i wish engnbldr was here he would set you straight, id say a guy thats been building engines for 50 years knows a little more than we do... but if you really want to find out, take a stock head and bolt it to a brand new block with the pistons at tdc and turn the cam untill it binds , that would be a valve touching a piston. if the engine is 90 degrees out of time on the camshaft you will bend every single intake valve if its retarded your timing or the exhaust if it advanced with 2 revolutions of the crank which is one complete revolution of the camshaft. the valve reliefs in the pistons are so the valve can fully open when the engine is timed properly. if that piston is at tdc when the valve is fully open, which is at 90 degrees advance or retard. valves arent supposed to open fully at tdc it susually about 5 to 10 degrees before tdc depending on if your head is milled or the block is decked. your block and head would need more than 1 inch of machine work to cause a 90 degree retard of the timing, period.....


Hey I don't want to start any shit, but I lost you about half through your reply because of grammar and spelling. I'm a dumbass redneck with a 12th grade eduacation and I couldn't make out what you were saying half through. Not that I wasn't INTERESTED but damn.

[subliminaltrips]

the bottom line is that the 22re is an interferance engine.... if you want to assume otherwise go ahead, people seem to assume alot of things . if your engine is 90 degrees off you will be assuming the position...

back to the topic, a 22r/re is as good engine but a v8 is more powerfull,obviously. there is no replacement for displacement. i have built several 22r/re's and i like them just fine although if i had the luxury of driving an 03' 4 runner i might not like the lake of power in comparison. my whole rant was just to set one thing straight, the 22re is an interferance engine period.

[azredliner]

i wish engnbldr was here...

I know Ted and I emailed him with the question; Is a 22R an interference engine?

He will let me know when he get's to the computer.

[ovrrdrive]

Hey I admitted I was wrong. As far as an appology goes, you started your crap first. I was joking and you were sidebusting. Now you are threatening people and I don't think that's going to fly around here.


Actually, I didn't start the crap in this thread. I simply responded to what I thought was crap that was already here.

I guess its my fault though for spending too much time on internet forums over the years...

I've seen this a thousand times. A newbie comes in and asks a question. By the third or fourth post the tone for the entire thread is set and it usually continues until the newbie looses interest or until someone like me steps in and strenuously states a conflicting opinion and puts the forum regulars back into their places. All it usually takes is one or two responses from a few guys with a bunch of posts that think they know everything and then the hundreds that read it and actually agree with the OP are afraid to post their opinions for fear of having you guys turn against them.

Personally I could care less what people like you think of me. You seem every bit as opinionated as I am, however it seems like most of your opinions are in direct conflict with mine so there seems to be little future for our friendship. Darn.
:lol:

I did ask subliminaltrips to come over here and read this thread right about the part where you and 22rekid were having such a laugh-fest at how stupid I was at having the wrong pistons in my truck, that continued even when I was posting in between your posts trying to tell you it was a picture of a valve. I didn't ask him to respond in any way though obviously, I simply asked him to read all of it, get a good laugh out of your stupidity, and register and post if he felt like it. I guess he felt like messing with you guys too. Go figure.

I think you started your crap first in this thread... You just got a little more than you bargained for.


Normally I'm not the saviour of little newbs all over the world though. I just agreed with him and was "in the mood... "

[ovrrdrive]

Overrdrive,
You are right I apoligize. I was fooled by the picture. There is an explanition for the interfierence though. Bottom line, The 22re is not an interfierence engine, unless you f**k with the head, pistons, oversized valves, high lift cams ect. I still don't think you should have made a PM public because the last time I checked my PMs there was a smartass one from you too. No hard feelings man.

Subliminaltrips,
Nice try to bail out your buddy. You are a douchbag. Enough said.

No problem... ;)

I like to take as many pictures of the engine as I can when I work on it so I can reference them later. That particular picture just came out really well though. I guess its not something you normally see in that kind of detail and zoom. I set the macro and lighting just perfectly on it. I'm kind of proud of it too.

In the fullsize picture I'm sure you wouldn't have had the same trouble...

http://www.ovrrdrive.made2own.com/uploader/files/1/bent_valve_fullsize.jpg

[azredliner]

I think it's messed up that someone was asking for advice and most of us were to wrapped up in a pissing contest to give some solid advice! :thumbdown

[azredliner]

Here's the word from engnblder.com. I get all of my knowledge and parts from Ted Stanwood.

"Yes, it is interference, the valves can hit if the cam jumps time. I have
seen this many times. But there is quite a few places where the cam could
stop and then the pistons clear with no real damage.

That is why the confusion I think. Some peel every valve, sometimes it's
just half of them, and sometimes none. Depends a lot on how fast they were
going when she unhooks."

Ted

Thanks again Ted.

[keyice]

man you guys talked this one to death and never really answer the question original asked. :thumbdown

[bbagwell]

Well at least we learned something from this pissing contest :redspotda .

[azredliner]

man you guys talked this one to death and never really answer the question original asked. :thumbdown

Look at post #58

[azredliner]

Well at least we learned something from this pissing contest :redspotda .

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a383/azredliner/Smileys/pissin.gifYeah. Ted pisses higher.

[ovrrdrive]

Or better yet, look at post #14 (http://www.wildyoats.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81386&postcount=14) where a real attempt was made at giving accurate advice that was relevant to the original question...

Also the post that started the sidetrack too I might add. :lol:

In between the cracks though there was quite a bit of good information in here, you just have to look for it.

[subliminaltrips]

told ya so!!!! neener neener neener.... thats all i wanted , i didnt have to email ted to know the answer but he is the man and it seems like most people respect his opinion because he has experience, i have used his parts in every one of my 22r's and respect him as well, but there are other people who know these engines too.

[keyice]

Man if the answer was a house on fire you pissed over the whole town, kind of like using a 12 guage to kill a fly, you might hit it you might not, but you scare the hell out of it either way.So back to the original question before the world series of penial poker started.

Question: Will a toyota on 35 be able to comfortabely tow two snowmobiles up fairly steep hill if you rebuild you 22re or should you put in a v8?

Answer so far:
Gears 5.29 do this
Engine if you don't care about mileage go with a v8 and which every tranny you prefer, if you do want mileage go with a v6 like a 4.3 or rebuild your 22re. Either way it is up to you , a v8, v6, or inline 6 are all work, easiest solution is rebuild the 22re to do what you want it to do, torque cam, stroker kit and you will have enough power.