Too much crankcase pressure, blowin oil.. Wtf?

[TheHighLife]

Alright, iv been trying to pinpoint an oil leak on a new motor for quite a while. And have a question. This is on a freshly rebuilt 22re, fully rebuilt, head and all. It runs good other than it leaks oil. Originally it was blowing oil from the dipstick (air and oil were blowing outa the oil dipstick when running)

I thought that this was due to a bad pcv valve, but it continues even after i installed a brand new genuine toyota pcv valve and gromet.

btw, after i replaced the pcv valve, and it was getting a good seal, the valve cover holds pressure, After i turn it off, and pull of the oil cap, it lets out a whoosh of air.. and if its off when the motor is running.. than it just puffs out air, and sprays/splatts oil.

What other things could cuase this? Ill be checking the compression for the first time tonight. I read somewhere that this could also be cuased by some kind of internal problem.. Like a ring not seating or something... But its not burning any oil, or smoking.. i dunno, im just lost. Help!

Thanks

-Adam

[22REkid]

It sounds like a ventation problem. Crankcase pressure is normal. Don't worry, the 22REKid has racked his brain and even looked under the hood of his own beast as well as a 22RE that I am building to come up with possible answers. I have pretty much ruled rings out brcause it doesn't burn oil or smoke. Even if the rings were not installed properly, you would not really have a pressure problem (as long as the PCV valve and crankcase breather were functioning properly), you would just get a lot of smoke. You said that you replaced the PCV valve though. Pull the PCV valve back off and the PCV tube that goes into the inke manifold and check to see if that tube in clogged with something. You can try blowing through it with your mouth (don't do it with the PCV valve connected to the tube, just the tube itself). Don't worry, oil is good for you:) If that tube is not blocked, check to see if the hole in the intake manifold where the PCV tube connects to is plugged. This can be done with a small skrew driver. If everything is all good with that check the crankcase breather tube (the only other tube in the valve cover that connects to the intake manifold). Check it the same way as the PCV valve, blow through it to see if it is clogged and do the skrew driver thing in the hole that the tube connects to. It could be as simple as that, but if those components are working properly check the valve cover itself. I once painted a valve cover and wadded up a bunch of masking tape in to the crankcase breather tube and forgot to remove the tape. If there are no blockages there, look undernieth the valve cover and there is a metal plate rivited to the valve cover. You will see how the PCV valve and crankcase breather are supposed to breathe. It is unlikely, but if there is a blockage in that plate the PCV valve and crankcase breather tube will not work properly. Check to see if the PCV valve was installed upside down. It is normal when you remove the oil cap on a running 22RE for it to spray oil and puff out air. It is not normal for it to hold crankcase pressure though. That is what the crankcase breather tube and PCV valve is for.

[TheHighLife]

Thanks man, that helps alot. I cleaned everything pretty well on the rebuild, but i only double checked the pcv valve for blockage.. Ill check the other breather aswell as the compression tonight and see what turns up.

Thanks

-Adam

[ZUK]

That does not sound normal.....the amount of air puffing out of your dipstick sounds like excessive blow-by.....this means the rings are not sealing properly. I wonder if you did a compression check of each cylinder if the problem cylinder would show up. You said the engine was freshly rebuilt....did they use chrome moly rings?

[22REkid]

Like I said, I don't think that it is the rings because it is not burning any oil. CRANKCASE PRESSURE IS NORMAL! The only abnormality is that the pressure is not being ventalated properly. PCV stands for Positive Crankcase Ventalation, say the rings were bad and causing excessive blow by, the PCV valve and crankcase breather tube would take care of the pressure issue if they were working properly.

[TheHighLife]

Well, I double checked the pvc and the crankcase breather hose's. They were both good, I tired pushing a skrewdriver through the intake side of the crankcase breather, and it hit a solid object.. which im assuming is supposed to be there? sprayed the hole with carb clean anyway. I also checked the compression. I got 150lbs on all four.. Which is lower than i was expecting.. shouldnt it be at like 160-180lbs? but.. at least it was even accrossed the board. so any more ideas? sollutions? :)

Thanks again for all the help.

-Adam

[22REkid]

I just stick a skrew driver in where my crankcase breather tube connects to and hit a solid object as well. 150lbs ls good, so now you can completely rule out the rings. Did you build the engine yourself? Because often times if you buy rebuilt engines they leave tape in holes of the valve cover so that dust doesn't get inside the valve train. The next thing to do is pull the valve cover off and blow through the PCV hole and the crankcase breather hole. If everything is normal you should be able to blow through both of them with no restriction. We are getting closer! Is it possible to send pics of the engine? If the holes are all good remove the PCV valve and run it to see if it stops blowing oil through the dipstick it is possible that the PCV valve is stuck closed, shake it and see if it rattles (it should). It is possible that the new PCV valve is directional (unlikely) and it is upside down. If all those tests come up nevitive, put the PCV valve in the opposite direction and see if that helps.

[ZUK]

Adam....you didn't overfill the crankcase by 2 or 3 quarts did you?

[TheHighLife]

Ok, I once again replaced the pcv valve, I guess the hose on the truck didnt match the pcv valve they gave me. They make a pcv valve with an elbo on the top and one without. That solved the crankcase pressure, oil from the dipstick, pcv and anywhere else accept for one spot.

So I have my last oil leak narrowed down to either the small metal plate on the very back of the 22re. or where the egr valve connects to the head..
Could it leak from either of these, i was told one of the bolts on the plate goes to an oil passage or something.. If so, which one, or how does that work, Iv seen what it looks like inside and such, so im not sure where it would be leaking oil. Is the inside passage of the plate an oil, or coolent passage?
And, The egr valve wouldent leak oil, right? would any of its bolt holes leak oil?

anyway, help me out with this one guys..
Thanks

[22REkid]

It's not really possible for an Exhaust Gas Recirculation valve to leak oil unless there is a hole in the head. That plate in the back that you are talking about is just a passege for exhaust to go into thr EGR valve. If the leak is in that area, I would think it is the half moon plug in the back of the head right undernieth the valve cover. You have to goop them up with a bunch of silicone when you are putting them back together or else they will leak for sure. That is really the only place in that area that would leak oil except for the head gasket.

[TheHighLife]

so that plate on the back is not exposed to any oil? I know that it has a tube going through it that connects to the egr.. But, it also covers a like 2''x3'' hole in the head.. is that coolent, or oil?

I did replace the half moons, but, didnt use any silicone, so, ill try that, and take a better look at that plate while its off. Thanks again

[22REkid]

No, that plate in the back is there fot the sole purpose of pumping exhaust gas into the EGR valve passege. If you pull of that plate, 12mm, you will see that there is just a passege within the plate that connects the 2 passeges. The rest of what is inside beyond the plate is empty space to save cylender head weight and increase the cooling abilitys of the head. It is possible that the head gasket is not sealing right and leaking into the empty space but not likely. You already did a compression test and all of the cylenders tested good. I would try the half moons, there is one in the front and one in the back. Clean it off real well with brabe cleaner so you don't confuse old leaks with new leaks.

[Freakyodaking]

Like I said, I don't think that it is the rings because it is not burning any oil. CRANKCASE PRESSURE IS NORMAL! The only abnormality is that the pressure is not being ventalated properly. PCV stands for Positive Crankcase Ventalation, say the rings were bad and causing excessive blow by, the PCV valve and crankcase breather tube would take care of the pressure issue if they were working properly.


This is the right answer, exept you need to do a leak down test. My 22r did the same thing when it was rebuilt last year. Did they LINE BORE the block because if they didn't your work is for nothing and you have to tear it down again. The cylinders have to be re bored and honed to take the slop out of the bottom of them and make them all the same from top to bottom or you lose "push" at the bottom of the combustion stroke! the cylinders natural wear is most at this spot. while your in that set, make sure you have the "thrust" side of the piston proper to the rotation of the crank. if not you'll throw a rod after 650 miles due to fracture.

if the engine is producing TOO MUCH pressure the PCV can only relieve so much of it run an old air guage to it and tell me how much, after all, I build engines for a living.

[TheHighLife]

Well, I went and got the old pcv valve that was on the truck, cleaned it with carb clean, and put it back on, and it fixed the pressure problem.

Now I just have a horrible oil leak to deal with.

Thanks alot

-Adam